General Update/Rumour thread [Urban Ottawa]

[J.OT13]

Great, Vanier is a good place for intensification, especially around Cummings Bridge/Eastview Plaza, but how will people get downtown? Bus? Car? As I've motioned countless times, they'd better not build streetcars.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Great, Vanier is a good place for intensification, especially around Cummings Bridge/Eastview Plaza, but how will people get downtown? Bus? Car? As I've motioned countless times, they'd better not build streetcars.

Why?

I'd rather see something faster, though. If we're going to improve public transit, increasing speed should be a priority.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by defishel

Why?

I'd rather see something faster, though. If we're going to improve public transit, increasing speed should be a priority.

Streetcars won't increase speed or capacity. Too many intersections, too many cars, not enough room. Build it underground, bit by bit.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

The problem with building underground in Vanier is that there simply isn't enough people living in the area to justify the overwhelming cost of an underground tunnel.

If we're going to try and improve service and capacity, we essentially have two options:

1. High frequency and high capacity buses on semi-segregated right of way.

2. Expropriate land to build a transitway/Scott St. trench in the neighbourhood for buses or LRT.

[Harley613]

Peoplemover would work nicely as a connection between Vanier and the Market!

[J.OT13]

Vanier has 5,500 people/square km, I think they have the density. Add possible redevelopment nodes like Eastview Plaza, Vanier Parkway, Bégin, Lafontaine, Belisle GM...

As for the people mover idea, I'm sorry but elevated rail looks like shit!

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Vanier has 5,500 people/square km, I think they have the density. Add possible redevelopment nodes like Eastview Plaza, Vanier Parkway, Bégin, Lafontaine, Belisle GM...

As for the people mover idea, I'm sorry but elevated rail looks like shit!

Forgetting how it looks, the last thing this city needs is yet another mode of public transit. We already have buses and "heavy" rail. We're to have LRT starting in 5 years. That's 3 modes of transit. 3 groups of employees. 3 vastly different maintenance facilities.

Bus lanes will get the folks where they need to go.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

Forgetting how it looks, the last thing this city needs is yet another mode of public transit. We already have buses and "heavy" rail. We're to have LRT starting in 5 years. That's 3 modes of transit. 3 groups of employees. 3 vastly different maintenance facilities.

Bus lanes will get the folks where they need to go.

totally agree. Make the bus system work as best as it can is the most sensible and economical approach along Montreal Road for the forseeable future. If we are not running buses every minute or two along there, why would we consider grade separated rail?

[Kitchissippi]

If I were to put a surface tram through Vanier, I'd run it along McArthur and make a beeline to La Cité Collegale. It would have guaranteed ridership, especially if it linked with uOttawa. McArthur is lined with property that is ripe for redevelopment and intensification, and less susceptible to congestion. A surface tram, along with a drastic streetscape make-over (reduced lanes, wider sidewalks), would be a far better demonstration of how transit can transform the city.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

If I were to put a surface tram through Vanier, I'd run it along McArthur and make a beeline to La Cité Collegale. It would have guaranteed ridership, especially if it linked with uOttawa. McArthur is lined with property that is ripe for redevelopment and intensification, and less susceptible to congestion. A surface tram, along with a drastic streetscape make-over (reduced lanes, wider sidewalks), would be a far better demonstration of how transit can transform the city.

Interesting thought but how would we get it downtown? Cummings Bridge is not very wide and I am not sure about major modifications to a bridge that has such interesting character.

[J.OT13]

Bus lanes for the foreseeable future, fine. Streetcars, never. I don't buy the multiple mode of transportation argument. The O-Train and the Confederation line are both part of a larger "metro" system. The trains might look different and the O-Train platforms may not be as long or fancy, but the do the same job; bring the masses from a. to b. on a fixed rail line. Build a few subways in old Ottawa, same thing; just draw these new lines on the map, it's all part of the same metro system.

Something that doesn't make sense is the Scarborough RT in TO. Short line from nowhere to nowhere, transfer on a line that brings you to the city, but then you have to transfer again to downtown. Now that was too much.

As long as people don't need to transfer rail lines more than once, the system works fine. That said, all lines should go to downtown eventually if possible.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

If I were to put a surface tram through Vanier, I'd run it along McArthur and make a beeline to La Cité Collegale. It would have guaranteed ridership, especially if it linked with uOttawa. McArthur is lined with property that is ripe for redevelopment and intensification, and less susceptible to congestion. A surface tram, along with a drastic streetscape make-over (reduced lanes, wider sidewalks), would be a far better demonstration of how transit can transform the city.

Interesting, though how would you get it from St. Laurent Blvd. to La Cité collégiale?

[Kitchissippi]

There would obviously have to be a redevelopment plan and some properties bought up for the ROW. Gardenvale Road runs roughly from McArthur to the Aviation Parkway near La Cité Collegiale.

As for the bridge across the Rideau, Cummings Bridge could be redone with a wider upper deck for traffic and a narrower lower deck for transit (like a mini Bloor-Danforth Bridge in Toronto), or a tram-specific bridge (plus ped and bike) could be built to Laurier and run trams there. In fact, once most of the buses are gone from Albert/Slater after the Confederation line is built, the segregated bike lanes could be moved there and Laurier could become a downtown surface tram ROW with some sort of eventual connection to Carling



THere could also be s spur at the NRC up to the Rockcliffe Base site

[teej1984]

Im confused... what's wrong with the 12? It's frequent, if sometimes busy, and relatively quick. There is also a bus lane down Montreal Road/Rideau St.

[Schattenjager]

From past experiences in 2009 - 2010, the 12 is extremely slow during rush hour.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Schattenjager

From past experiences in 2009 - 2010, the 12 is extremely slow during rush hour.

Yep. It is slow and unreliable in rush hour. It is pretty common to wait 15 minutes to get 3-4 buses running back to back.

[lrt's friend]

I find it ironic that a downtown surface tram is being suggested when the original plan calling for the same was considered unacceptable even in the short term and that a subway would make a surface tram redundant. I am not disagreeing with a downtown surface tram but the arguments at the time indicating that it was a subway OR a surface tram and not both were ridiculous. I have long argued that a single major transit route through downtown is not in our best interests.

As someone who is interested in heritage, I am not at all supportive of significant changes to Cummings Bridge as I consider it one of the most attractive bridges in the city.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

...
I have long argued that a single major transit route through downtown is not in our best interests.
...

No argument from me there.

I would have preferred that a separate East-West line (Example: Montreal-Carling) have been built before converting the Transitway itself. This initial line could have helped handle some of the load during Transitway conversion. Two lines also avoids the 'all our eggs in one basket' scenario should part of the line be closed due to an incident. This will become very evident the first time there's an emergency shutdown during rush hour.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Schattenjager

From past experiences in 2009 - 2010, the 12 is extremely slow during rush hour.

EVERYTHING is slow during rush hour.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

No argument from me there.

I would have preferred that a separate East-West line (Example: Montreal-Carling) have been built before converting the Transitway itself. This initial line could have helped handle some of the load during Transitway conversion. Two lines also avoids the 'all our eggs in one basket' scenario should part of the line be closed due to an incident. This will become very evident the first time there's an emergency shutdown during rush hour.

Build new transit before upgrading something adequate; seems sensible enough.