Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[Klazu]

10 lanes! I would have never guessed that. For once they are looking forward with this plan!

I am not sure I'll be here in 2020 or whenever the bridge completes, but good to see this progressing! Tolling is a given, but that's okay as these structures cost a lot to build. Just too bad it doesn't include an option for expanding Skytrain 20 years from now all south of Fraser.

Best comment on Youtube: It's like they dug into the Expo 86 music archive....

[hollywoodnorth]

can I get a GO CHRISTY GO!

[DKaz]

Yay, we're getting our sixth cable stayed bridge since the 80s. Seventh if you count the extradosed Canada Line bridge.

[libtard]

4 lanes each way PLUS an HOV. Thats awesome. Each direction needs at least 4 lanes dedicated to movement. North bound 99 in afternoon rush hour is absolutely ridiculous

Dear god just build it

But the real question is WILL they be twinning the Steveston HWY overpass

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

• Video Link

And this video shows the extent of what we would get for cycling, a connection over the bridge. The rest of the corridor for cycling will rely on the existing horrible network. Cyclists can use the shoulders of highway 17 (SFPR) and can come from Steveston Hwy which doesn't even have bike lanes. How about a corridor long bike path? Peace Arch to Vancouver?

Wow, 3 lanes merging into at the northbound BC-99 entry from Hwy 17??? A major recipe for disaster! I better hope that the lane configurations shown in this video is just a draft version of it. One of the biggest freeway design blunders in Metro Vancouver is the endless creation of bottlenecks on bridges (created through the merging of more than 2 lanes into 1 lane from an interchange entering a bridge or tunnel) and I think it's one of the biggest contributor to massive jams.

One of the things I'm most impressed about the TCH-1 widening and the new PMB is that the engineers worked very hard to eliminate bottlenecks at the bridge and at various points on the TCH-1, by preventing the merging of multiple lanes into one.

[libtard]

I'll be very surprised if this monster gets built

This would be absolutely incredible if it actually goes ahead

[Infrequent Poster]

So this has probably already been covered in this thread at some point but, does anyone know what the scope of this project is? As in will there be a complete overhaul (added lanes both general and hov) of the freeway from the border to the oakstreet bridge? Or would this just be limited to the area around the crossing?

Also just an observation here, but does it seem weird that this crossing would have twice as many general purpose lanes as the port mann. (yes I am not included the two lanes for people going from surrey to coquitlam)

[The_Henry_Man]

^I think (and hope) it'll be a complete overhaul of Hwy 99. It should, especially because the new replacement bridge will very likely be 10 lanes.

I won't be too surprised if either a widened or rebuilt OSB would be included in the entire Hwy 99 widening/improvement program as well. The increased capacity of the GMT replacement would only lead to a more massive bottleneck if nothing is addressed at the Sea Island Way/Bridgeport interchange and the OSB, since it's only 4 lanes in total. I probably envisage the OSB to be refurbished and somehow widened to 7 lanes (3 southbound and 4 northbound), as the OSB replacement would be too costly to be included in the entire project. I say 4 northbound lanes on the OSB to Vancouver can consist of 3 general purpose lanes to link up with the 3 northbound lanes on Oak Street (therefore, no additional lanes into the city), and the 4th lane can come from the ramp from Sea Island Way to northbound Hwy 99 and this lane can become an exit lane into Marine Drive.

As for the Sea Island/Bridgeport interchange, it needs to be totally rebuilt. I think it'll probably look like the 152nd St/TCH-1 interchange, in which there will be an HOV left exit lane for the busses from South Delta/Surrey.

I think the Hwy 17A and Steveston interchanges will be linked up and become a C/D system similar to the Cape Horn one.

[Millennium2002]

So in a few years they'll rip out all the new asphalt that they laid over the last few years in favour of... more fresh-smelling asphalt?

This sounds far fetched btw, but what are the chances that the government is trying to make money from us through any method possible, including road pricing? I mean, TransLink, no longer being a crown corporation but a quasi-governmental body, cannot funnel revenues towards the province and is the only agency that appears to be hammered by the same government all the time despite the support of the cities. On the other hand, TICorp and all the other crown coroporations have had clear sailing despite massive amounts of controversy over user fee hikes. It may be sheer coincidence, but I think not.

Also, I wonder what sort of reasoning they are trying to use to justify 4 + HOV per direction on this bridge... (cough Port Mann like collector/express cough)

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

...I wonder what sort of reasoning they are trying to use to justify 4 + HOV per direction on this bridge... (cough Port Mann like collector/express cough)

If they're smart they'll repeat what they did with the Alex Fraser bridge and open it below capacity. The Alex Fraser was built for 3+3 lanes but was opened with 2+2 lanes. They could open this bridge with 3+3 lanes for regular traffic and one extra lane per direction for HOV traffic - that would make a lot of sense for current volumes. Wide shoulders would then provide room for spare capacity at some point down the road.

I hope they take a good look at actual traffic volumes on the Port Mann after the tolls go up in the new year before they put too much faith in their traffic forecasts for this bridge, though.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Klazu

10 lanes! I would have never guessed that. For once they are looking forward with this plan!

I am not sure I'll be here in 2020 or whenever the bridge completes, but good to see this progressing! Tolling is a given, but that's okay as these structures cost a lot to build. Just too bad it doesn't include an option for expanding Skytrain 20 years from now all south of Fraser.

Best comment on Youtube: It's like they dug into the Expo 86 music archive....

It's good that they're looking ahead, but a bridge with the same capacity as the Port Mann? There must be more to this plan that we're not hearing about.

[Gordon]

Highway99 will need to be substantially expanded. what will be done with the North end of #99 where everything funnell into the Oak street bridge?

[Stingray2004]

Frankly, I always thought that the GMT would be replaced in the 2025 time frame due to so many infrastructure needs. That said, the GMT is a major bottleneck and traffic speeds can be usually ~50 km/hr through same. Ugh.

Heading northbound after 3 pm can be a nightmare with 6 lanes converging into one. And the backups to the Steveston Hwy exit can be dangerous, sometimes backing up toward the tunnel. Add in the tremendous amount of commercial traffic and I can go on and on.

So when the GMT thingy was announced prior to the election, I also thought that it was more of a longer term thingy with a 2021 commencement. In that regard, I am pleasantly surprised that a 2017 construction start-up has been announced and also with the 10-lane bridge GMT replacement which I also predicted.

Frankly, I also thought the new GMT bridgehead would over-shoot both the Steveston Hwy interchange but that is obviously not the case.

BC MoTI will release their Project Definition Report next year, which will detail all the highway segments and interchange upgrades. I also suspect that the Oak Street Bridge will also somehow fit into the equation as well as part of a systems-wide upgrade.

As an aside, after reading the Phase 2 Consultation Report, one of the things brought up by stakeholder meetings with Agricultural Groups is as follows:

Request that lanes and ramps be built wide enough to support farm vehicle traffic.

Yeah right!

[Zassk]

The latest version of the Vancouver Sun article says that the project includes a full highway rebuild from Bridgeport Road to the US border. So Oak Street is not included, but basically everything else is.

The article also mentions SFPR... so maybe the SFPR unfinished overpasses will be included as well....!

[GMasterAres]

It will be an overhaul from steveston to the border. The tunnel is a major bottle neck but so is the hwy 99/91 interchange and the hwy 99 stretch from 91 to 8th is heavy use. Also they need to replace the 152 overpass with 2/3 lane version so they can finish 2 laning to hwy 10, and 2 lane the KGB overpass and bridge over the nickl.

Also if you note they want to move the HOV to the center from the edge to make it like other highways so that will require some adjusting.

The current assumption is that most traffic beyond steveston diffuses but truth be told it is difficult to get rid of that bottleneck with the current Vancouver city council and while the ministry can strong arm Oak Street, they don't want to right now.

[CBeats]

Yay new bridge! That tunnel is a disaster, so this will be great.

It seemed pretty easy to pull ~$3 Billion together for this project and the Port Mann. Can't the government please please just do the same for the Millenium Line??

[moosejaw]

I think this is good news, i do think having a 10 lane bridge may be optimistic and it might be scaled down to 8. It would make sense in this stage to make provisions to accommodate rapid transit. I can't see the ladner overpass tying in with this bridge? Wasn't that supposed to be reduced to two lanes?

I can see the flower bearing hippies and the stop the pave coalition taking issue with this. Cant wait for the protests.

I have issue with the design. Another boring concrete cable stayed bridge? Do all bridges have to just look as bland? I know its the most cost effective of delivery. But the PMB, AFB, GEB are all starting to look the same. HOw about some lighting or come up with painted suspension cables (think sunshine skyway in Tampa) just to look different?

And please BC make new road signs that people can read from six car lengths away.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by CBeats

It seemed pretty easy to pull ~$3 Billion together for this project and the Port Mann. Can't the government please please just do the same for the Millenium Line??

Yep. The Massey Tunnel averages about 90,000 vehicles per day and has been declining in recent years, while the Broadway Corridor has been increasing and now averages about 160,000 trips/day. It's badly congested and deserves funding at least as much as the Massey Tunnel.

[Millennium2002]

Currently, the provincial government stance appears to prioritize money-making toll bridges over something that it wouldn't be able to control or recoup money from (that is, TransLink's Broadway and Surrey extensions).

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Yep. The Massey Tunnel averages about 90,000 vehicles per day and has been declining in recent years, while the Broadway Corridor has been increasing and now averages about 160,000 trips/day. It's badly congested and deserves funding at least as much as the Massey Tunnel.

While the GMT has technically had a relatively small decline in traffic volumes (due to economy, etc.) you certainly wouldn't notice same. Even I have had to take the circuitous Hwy 91/AFB route to the OSB as the GMT is in gridlock on many occasions - in order to avoid the GMT.

That said, future GMT traffic generators include the massive growth in South Surrey's population down the road, Roberts Bank Superport (container terminal), Tsawwassen FN's major future commercial/residential development and ferry traffic.

That said, I agree that the Millennium Line extension westward to (Alma or Arbutus?) should also be a priority. Extending to UBC would be more long term. Perhaps an announcement regarding same will be made prior to 2017 as well as a Surrey LRT line.

However, the real world is somewhat complex and also involves politics in terms of "tipping points". To wit, the Canada Line was constructed as part of the Olympics and obtained the following capital construction funding:

Canada: $450 M
YVR: $300 M
BC: $435 M

Similarly, the Evergreen Line obtained the following capital construction funding:

Canada: $417 M
BC: $583 M

The Canada Line traverses the provincial ridings of Vancouver-False Creek, Vancouver-Fairview, Vancouver Langara, and Richmond Centre, all held by the provincial Libs (V-F is now NDP). Vancouver South and Richmond are all held by the federal Cons.

Similarly, all of the provincial ridings that the Evergreen Line runs though are provincially Lib held (for the most part) and federally held by the Cons.

Same can be said for the GMT and the Hwy 99 corridor.

OTOH, the Millennium Line extension runs through a federal Con dead zone (Vancouver Centre and Vancouver Quadra both held by the federal Liberals), while the provincial NDP now hold (by narrow margins) the provincial equivalents of Vancouver Fairview and Vancouver Point Grey.

Frankly, I don't like it, but politics always seems to have a role to play when the feds and the province both kick in major funds for infrastructure projects. Always been that way unfortunately.