Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[J.OT13]

If I vote for Watson, it's for two reasons; 1. the other possible candidates are complete idiots and 2. Watson transportation priorities, although don't include the Bank-Rideau subway, are much better than the previous council (i.e. drop Transitways and build LRT, drop interprovincial bridge that will only spread truck traffic and go for the only permanent solution, that is the King Eds tunnel).

[SF Thomas]

Expanding LRT to Orleans is probably worth it. The area probably has the highest transit use of the 3 major (detached) suburbs and since we started with LRT in the east end of the main city it can be connected right away. There are relatively few obstacles in the way and LRT can be built mostly on the surface, meaning it is fairly cheap to do so (can probably fit into the existing transit budget even with the cost of the western extension to Algonquin College).

[JM1]

Perhaps Watson could add an LRT on Montreal Road? This would assist the development of the area and could add a lot of value to Vanier real estate (and no, I don't own real estate in Vanier, but I think it is an area of the city that is underdeveloped and could have better housing for all income levels).

Originally Posted by SF Thomas

Expanding LRT to Orleans is probably worth it. The area probably has the highest transit use of the 3 major (detached) suburbs and since we started with LRT in the east end of the main city it can be connected right away. There are relatively few obstacles in the way and LRT can be built mostly on the surface, meaning it is fairly cheap to do so (can probably fit into the existing transit budget even with the cost of the western extension to Algonquin College).

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by SF Thomas

Expanding LRT to Orleans is probably worth it. The area probably has the highest transit use of the 3 major (detached) suburbs and since we started with LRT in the east end of the main city it can be connected right away. There are relatively few obstacles in the way and LRT can be built mostly on the surface, meaning it is fairly cheap to do so (can probably fit into the existing transit budget even with the cost of the western extension to Algonquin College).

The question remains whether it is problem that an LRT extension is needed to solve as a priority.

We need to start assessing costs and benefits. What are the real benefits of a LRT extension to Orleans? If it means a minimal time saving or a minimal potential for ridership growth, should it be a priority?

We need to look at corridors where there is potential for significant time savings and significant ridership growth and start ranking potential projects. That may prioritize an Orleans extension, but we need to do a fair assessment of all potential projects.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by JM1

Perhaps Watson could add an LRT on Montreal Road? This would assist the development of the area and could add a lot of value to Vanier real estate (and no, I don't own real estate in Vanier, but I think it is an area of the city that is underdeveloped and could have better housing for all income levels).

I question the value on-street LRT. It is a major expense to put in the rail infrastructure and if it is not going to be on an exclusive right of way, what is the benefit? Because Montreal Road in Vanier is not a wide street, I am not sure how you can create the exclusive right of way. You may be able to achieve just as much with buses by implementing all-day bus lanes and introducing signal priority.

I know we are talking about something similar on Carling Avenue but at least Carling is a wide boulevard with the potential of a more exclusive right of way for LRT.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I question the value on-street LRT. It is a major expense to put in the rail infrastructure and if it is not going to be on an exclusive right of way, what is the benefit? Because Montreal Road in Vanier is not a wide street, I am not sure how you can create the exclusive right of way. You may be able to achieve just as much with buses by implementing all-day bus lanes and introducing signal priority.

I know we are talking about something similar on Carling Avenue but at least Carling is a wide boulevard with the potential of a more exclusive right of way for LRT.

Agreed, surface LRT on Montreal would be disastrous. Bus lanes are a better, cheaper option.

Carling works, Kanata to Booth. It would be great to extend it to Beechwood (via Bronson, Sparks, Sussex and St-Patrick/Murray) but it wounld not be worth the cost.

[JM1]

I agree that it would add nothing on the surface, but you could do a cut and cover for the stretch of Montreal Road between Vanier Parkway and St Laurent (the eastern end of this stretch could be above ground). East of St Laurent, the ROW is pretty much the same as Carling's and you could go above ground with dips under major intersections (a la Spadina route in Toronto).

From Rideau Centre to Vanier Parkway you would need to do cut and cover under Rideau or Laurier.

As for the Beechwood option, I don't know if the density or development potential is worth it. In any case, if you did pursue it, I don't think you would use Sussex. A better option would be cut and cover under Rideau to King Edward to St Patrick (where you might come above ground). You would need to do cut and cover under most of Beechwood but might be able to come above ground on Hemlock (but if you think the Western LRT is a problem with residents, just wait until you hear the screams from Rockcliffe and Manor Park). This route could tie into the airbase development. But I still think if you are going to spend this kind of money, Montreal Road would be a better option.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Agreed, surface LRT on Montreal would be disastrous. Bus lanes are a better, cheaper option.

Carling works, Kanata to Booth. It would be great to extend it to Beechwood (via Bronson, Sparks, Sussex and St-Patrick/Murray) but it wounld not be worth the cost.

[SF Thomas]

Originally Posted by JM1

Perhaps Watson could add an LRT on Montreal Road? This would assist the development of the area and could add a lot of value to Vanier real estate (and no, I don't own real estate in Vanier, but I think it is an area of the city that is underdeveloped and could have better housing for all income levels).

I'm thinking along the same lines as LRT's Friend on this. It is another area like Bank that would definitely benefit from having an LRT line but (if I remember correctly) most of Montreal Rd probably doesn't space for a dedicated right of way. Running LRT in traffic there probably isn't a huge improvement to existing bus service beyond potentially being able to carry more people for fewer drivers.

Cut and cover to St Laurent could work. Not sure the city would want to take it (if the idea gained traction), at least until they finished the Confederation line (including the west end extension.

[Kitchissippi]

What would be interesting as an announcement would be maybe scaling down Tunney's Station and accelerating the western extension with the savings. Maybe the same for Blair Station

[McC]

Kicking off the mayor's re-election pitch, pace Nixon: "I have SECRET PLAN to get LRT from Baseline to Blair open -- under budget -- by Canada Day 2017!"

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by McC

Kicking off the mayor's re-election pitch, pace Nixon: "I have SECRET PLAN to get LRT from Baseline to Blair open -- under budget -- by Canada Day 2017!"

I would be happy just getting the first phase open in advance of July 1, 2017. How else is a big party going to work?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by JM1

I agree that it would add nothing on the surface, but you could do a cut and cover for the stretch of Montreal Road between Vanier Parkway and St Laurent (the eastern end of this stretch could be above ground). East of St Laurent, the ROW is pretty much the same as Carling's and you could go above ground with dips under major intersections (a la Spadina route in Toronto).

From Rideau Centre to Vanier Parkway you would need to do cut and cover under Rideau or Laurier.

As for the Beechwood option, I don't know if the density or development potential is worth it. In any case, if you did pursue it, I don't think you would use Sussex. A better option would be cut and cover under Rideau to King Edward to St Patrick (where you might come above ground). You would need to do cut and cover under most of Beechwood but might be able to come above ground on Hemlock (but if you think the Western LRT is a problem with residents, just wait until you hear the screams from Rockcliffe and Manor Park). This route could tie into the airbase development. But I still think if you are going to spend this kind of money, Montreal Road would be a better option.

I agree, Beechwood would never warrant an underground line. A streetcar would be useful, but I still don't think it's worth the expense.

Rideau-Montreal subway, I think Rideau would have to be bored or mined out, but most of Montreal could likely be cut and cover. As you and many others have said, it could resurface (on a ROW, going under or over intersection) at some point, I would say past the Montfort where traffic becomes less of an issue and where there is more room to widen the road. A split south around Carson or Bathgate to La Cité and Blair might also be in order.

[waterloowarrior]

Looks like September 23rd is the day it all gets unveiled

Information Sessions fall 2013
http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-con...structure/information-sessions-fall-2013

Help Build A Liveable Ottawa
What will Ottawa's transportation network look like in the years to come? How will we move around the city on the bus, in our cars, on our bikes or on foot? How does the way we move around our neighbourhoods fit in with the way the city will physically grow and develop as guided by our city's updated Official Plan?

What can we afford to build and maintain?

Follow the Building a Liveable Ottawa 2031 project by learning more about the Official Plan, Infrastructure Master Plan, Transportation Master Plan, Cycling Plan and the Pedestrian Plan at these upcoming information sessions:

Information Sessions
Date Time Location
September 23 5 to 8 p.m. Ottawa City Hall
110 Laurier Avenue West

September 24 5 to 7:30 p.m. Walter Baker Sports Centre
100 Malvern Drive

September 30 5 to 8 p.m. Kanata Recreation Centre
100 Walter Baker

October 2 5 to 8 p.m. Shenkman Arts Centre
245 Centrum Boulevard

City staff will be available to discuss and explain proposed plans for the expansion of the city's transit, road, cycling and pedestrian networks, as well as the proposed policies to guide development in the urban, suburban, and rural areas of Ottawa.

Don't have time to attend a session?

On September 23rd, visit this site to find resources designed to help you understand how the plans will shape the development and transportation in the inner urban area, outer urban area, Orléans, Barrhaven/Leitrim/ Riverside South, Kanata/Stittsville and the rural area over the next 20 years.

[waterloowarrior]

Big speech/reveal will now will be rescheduled for sometime in October

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Big speech/reveal will now will be rescheduled for sometime in October

Yes, as will the release of the TMP. Because the Transportation Committee meeting was cancelled word is an emergency meeting may be called to make up for it since Carleton is pushing for a decision on the O-Train closure.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I question the value on-street LRT. It is a major expense to put in the rail infrastructure and if it is not going to be on an exclusive right of way, what is the benefit? Because Montreal Road in Vanier is not a wide street,

It's as wide as any street in Toronto that has streetcars on it.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Catenary

Yes, as will the release of the TMP. Because the Transportation Committee meeting was cancelled word is an emergency meeting may be called to make up for it since Carleton is pushing for a decision on the O-Train closure.

So, these "Master Plans" get re-written every, what, four years?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I question the value on-street LRT. It is a major expense to put in the rail infrastructure and if it is not going to be on an exclusive right of way, what is the benefit?

Not to mention we need to question the value or re-instating a system that is very similar to what we pulled out 65 years earlier.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Not to mention we need to question the value or re-instating a system that is very similar to what we pulled out 65 years earlier.

Agreed; not much benefit. Comparing to Toronto is apples and oranges since they left their streetcar system in place, and sections have been rebuilt in exclusive ROW's where space existed (i.e. St. Clair Avenue, Spadina Avenue). Montreal Road is not wide enough for that.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Not to mention we need to question the value or re-instating a system that is very similar to what we pulled out 65 years earlier.

1. Why?

2. There were never streetcars on Montreal Road.