SAN FRANCISCO | Projects: Under Construction, Approved, and Proposed

[coyotetrickster]

Originally Posted by wakamesalad

Gentleman's bet- $100 the train station doesn't get built in our lifetimes.

Of course, if it ever were built, the US dollar will have been phased out by that time

Don't take yourselves too seriously SF.. it's ok to laugh at yourselves like the rest of us already do. I kid with love of course ))

The train station is built. That's what the deep excavation covered. Now, will there be tunnels for the trains to get to the platforms, that is the question.

[mt_climber13]

Originally Posted by coyotetrickster

The train station is built. That's what the deep excavation covered. Now, will there be tunnels for the trains to get to the platforms, that is the question.

The train station is most definitely not built. They dug down for a train box, if that's what you mean, but there is in no way an operable train station down there. I don't even think the train box is built yet, as I remember there being discrepancies as to whether to build it in phase 1 or 2, but I haven't been following too closely.
Foundation means nothing. Just look at the Chicago Spire.
A new generation of citizens will have to come in and undo all the damage done by this degenerate crop of politicians that is literally crapping all over the future of the city with short sighted boosts to their ego. The train station, if built, is going to have so many tight turns and engineering flaws that trains will not even be able to operate properly, causing serious delays, and limited any sense of "high speed" rail service.

[tech12]

Originally Posted by wakamesalad

The train station, if built, is going to have so many tight turns and engineering flaws that trains will not even be able to operate properly, causing serious delays, and limited any sense of "high speed" rail service.

A couple tight turns on the first mile of track is not a problem. So the trains will have to move slow when first exiting/entering the station. So what? They wouldn't be picking up full speed that close to the station even if the track were completely straight. Not exactly the same as "not operating properly". The tight turns are a geographic necessity, and the trains can obviously handle them. Believe it or not but the people involved in this project (engineers, developers, planners, etc) are not complete idiots.

Originally Posted by wakamesalad

I don't even think the train box is built yet, as I remember there being discrepancies as to whether to build it in phase 1 or 2, but I haven't been following too closely...

It's part of phase 1:

"In May 2010 the Transbay Joint Powers Authority (TJPA)
Board adopted a $1.6 billion budget for Phase 1 (TTC, pedestrian ramps, and
the train box, which is the underground portion of the TTC building that will
house the Caltrain and high-speed rail station)."

http://www.sfcta.org/sites/default/files.../Transbay/Transbay_fact_sheet_021313.pdf

[easy as pie]

Originally Posted by wakamesalad

The train station, if built, is going to have so many tight turns and engineering flaws that trains will not even be able to operate properly, causing serious delays, and limited any sense of "high speed" rail service.

because you're an engineer with intimate knowledge of the project.

[mt_climber13]

Originally Posted by easy as pie

because you're an engineer with intimate knowledge of the project.

"Curve Radius. The 1.4-mile DTX features three extremely sharp curves that allow the tracks to conform as best they can to the San Francisco street grid. The minimum curve radius is just 500 feet (150 m), the sharpest allowable radius for European off-the-shelf trains, and too sharp for some Japanese high speed trains. In theory, such curves can be navigated at a maximum safe speed of 35 mph (55 km/h); in practice, slower speeds of 25 to 30 mph are likely. Regardless of the exact speed, such tight curves will elicit deafening screeches from the stiff, long-wheelbase bogies that are a technical necessity for high speed rail."

http://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2009/03/focus-on-sf-transbay-transit-center.html

"The number of platforms is a potential issue a number of decades down the road, maybe. On the other hand, the poor design of the connection between the DTX tunnel and the platforms, the so-called "throat", is a real issue right now because Caltrain will also use the tunnel and downtown station. It's a bottleneck even an expensive three-track tunnel cannot fully resolve. Moreover, according to Clem, the current design of the DTX tunnel features curve radii so small that they effectively preclude the use of Japanese shinkansen train designs for the California system."

http://cahsr.blogspot.com/2009/04/transbay-terminal-redux.html

This HSR project is now already decades outdated without even having started construction. We will have to use outdated trains because of these curves. Just terminate HSR at the current 4th and King station, save a couple billion. It will probably be quicker to walk from there to the TBT anyway if you consider the trains stopping and waiting for each other because of the halt of speed, especially during rush hours. But, yes, I may be wrong. I am also concerned that BART or MUNI metro won't even connect to the new terminal, but there are plans to possibly connect an underground walkway from the Embarcadero Station. Moving walkways would be a cool idea in that case.


Image: http://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2009/03/focus-on-sf-transbay-transit-center.html

[cv94117]

Originally Posted by wakamesalad

"Curve Radius. The 1.4-mile DTX features three extremely sharp curves that allow the tracks to conform as best they can to the San Francisco street grid. The minimum curve radius is just 500 feet (150 m), the sharpest allowable radius for European off-the-shelf trains, and too sharp for some Japanese high speed trains. In theory, such curves can be navigated at a maximum safe speed of 35 mph (55 km/h); in practice, slower speeds of 25 to 30 mph are likely. Regardless of the exact speed, such tight curves will elicit deafening screeches from the stiff, long-wheelbase bogies that are a technical necessity for high speed rail."

http://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2009/03/focus-on-sf-transbay-transit-center.html

"The number of platforms is a potential issue a number of decades down the road, maybe. On the other hand, the poor design of the connection between the DTX tunnel and the platforms, the so-called "throat", is a real issue right now because Caltrain will also use the tunnel and downtown station. It's a bottleneck even an expensive three-track tunnel cannot fully resolve. Moreover, according to Clem, the current design of the DTX tunnel features curve radii so small that they effectively preclude the use of Japanese shinkansen train designs for the California system."

http://cahsr.blogspot.com/2009/04/transbay-terminal-redux.html

This HSR project is now already decades outdated without even having started construction. We will have to use outdated trains because of these curves. Just terminate HSR at the current 4th and King station, save a couple billion. It will probably be quicker to walk from there to the TBT anyway if you consider the trains stopping and waiting for each other because of the halt of speed, especially during rush hours. But, yes, I may be wrong. I am also concerned that BART or MUNI metro won't even connect to the new terminal, but there are plans to possibly connect an underground walkway from the Embarcadero Station. Moving walkways would be a cool idea in that case.

This is the problem with the Internet. You're quoting from a blog written by someone with a political axe to grind - not a technical expert - and you think it's fact. Furthermore the graphics you show are from an outdated design that has been modified (at great cost, but unneccesarily) to mollify allies of said blogger and move the project forward. The previous writer is right - the trains can easily handle the curves without any degradation of service at the speeds that they will need to be travelling to safely approach the station. This has been studied over and over again and validated by real experts.

[peanut gallery]

In other news, this beautiful piece of infill has been proposed for 1433 Bush St:

As proposed, the one-story building at 1433 Bush between Polk Street and Van Ness Avenue which currently houses City Rent-A-Car will be razed, and in its place a 10-story building dubbed "Casa D'Ambroso" with 32 condos, 26 residential parking spaces and ground floor commercial will rise.

If approved by San Francisco's Planning Commission next week, City Rent-A-Car proposes to re-establish operations on the ground floor of the new building with offices and 3 parking spaces dedicated to their business. City Rent-A-Car's fleet of 140 cars would be stored off-site.

The design for the 115-foot tall building includes a central courtyard which would be watered in part by way of a rain water harvesting system while solar panels atop the building would help to power common area needs.

Source: SocketSite

Click the source for more details and several more renderings. Count me as a fan of this one. The massing and setbacks look great and I love the colors they've used. The stonework/tiling at street level and paneling that will cover the second floor parking area both look particularly good. I would love one of those penthouses.

[fimiak]

I really like 1433 Bush! The height and number of occupants is perfect. The fact that City Rent-a-Car is able to remain in the building (with an upgraded space) is icing on the cake. This to me represents the perfect example of new infill for SF.

[easy as pie]

yeah, except the totally unnecessary parking ingress on bush street, which only exists because a) they don't want to excavate for their parking and thus have had the architects rig up a ludicrous solution; and b) they want to stay above a .75 parking ratio on the project. i hope that planning approves the project conditional on the removal of the bush street parking ingress, otherwise, this thing is fantastic.

[mt_climber13]

Originally Posted by cv94117

This is the problem with the Internet. You're quoting from a blog written by someone with a political axe to grind - not a technical expert - and you think it's fact. Furthermore the graphics you show are from an outdated design that has been modified (at great cost, but unneccesarily) to mollify allies of said blogger and move the project forward. The previous writer is right - the trains can easily handle the curves without any degradation of service at the speeds that they will need to be travelling to safely approach the station. This has been studied over and over again and validated by real experts.

I would like to be proved wrong.. do you have any evidence you can give me? It's not like I despise San Francisco. I am a Bay Area native and consider SF the capital of the west (north of LA). I just get really passionate and worked up about all the short sightedness that goes on which destroys the functionality and livability of my favorite city.

[AndrewK]

Originally Posted by easy as pie

yeah, except the totally unnecessary parking ingress on bush street, which only exists because a) they don't want to excavate for their parking and thus have had the architects rig up a ludicrous solution; and b) they want to stay above a .75 parking ratio on the project. i hope that planning approves the project conditional on the removal of the bush street parking ingress, otherwise, this thing is fantastic.

I cant say for certain, but it is possible that there is already construction underneath this building, hence their inability to dig down for parking. A long time ago there used to be a rave venue (called "the dungeon") underneath the krav maga building and those to the east, which was entirely below ground and had several rooms. At the very eastern end there was an ext onto the alley behind, but I cant remember exactly how close to Polk it was.

[easy as pie]

^ hm, interesting.

so, the ny times published an article (socketsite has a discussion of it) about the lucas museum proposal in the presidio. some description of the back and forth with the presidio trust idiots trying to grandstand and lucas just getting frustrated. but we get a couple images of his proposal:



normally, i'd scoff at a design like this, but in this context i love that he's doing something to restore the panama pacific expo beaux arts architecture so little of which survived.

[peanut gallery]

So I'm pulling into the Ferry Building when I spy a tower crane I don't recall being discussed on here:


And on the North side of the Financial District, no less?


Oh yeah, that affordable housing project at the old Embarcadero Freeway ramp on Broadway.


Forgot about that:

Source: CurbedSF

255 Broadway is definitely under construction:

[mt_climber13]

Originally Posted by easy as pie

^ hm, interesting.

so, the ny times published an article (socketsite has a discussion of it) about the lucas museum proposal in the presidio. some description of the back and forth with the presidio trust idiots trying to grandstand and lucas just getting frustrated. but we get a couple images of his proposal:



normally, i'd scoff at a design like this, but in this context i love that he's doing something to restore the panama pacific expo beaux arts architecture so little of which survived.

Museum, or Best Western??


These other two design proposals from Socketsite look gorgeous:

[viewguysf]

Originally Posted by wakamesalad

Museum, or Best Western??

These other two design proposals look gorgeous:

In this case, I disagree with you and agree with easy as pie. You can see the entire Lucas proposal (and the others) on the Presidio website. Considering what George Lucas has already built in the Presidio and elsewhere, you can rest assured that this project would not be of Best Western quality.

[WonderlandPark]

The arched windows on the Lucas building look cheeeeeeeeepo. Of course these are renderings, the "fit and finish" better be top notch or else this really will be the 2 star Best Western Presidio. Good, really good historic knockoff/revival is very difficult to do these days and almost always comes off poor to middling. The old styles were built by true craftsmen, not a precast factory or cheap knockoff Malibu tile, and don't get me started on those cheap windows (these look cheap, cheap, and cheaper, bad windows are a pet peeve, but can make or break a building IMO).

[fflint]

I had business in the Letterman Digital Arts complex in the Presidio last week. It was my first time in there, and I walked the grounds as I was very close to Lucas' offices (saw the Yoda statue, it's funny but strangely dignified). Anyway, it's a high-quality complex. The architecture has good massing, proportions, and materials. The landscaping is also good. Considering his influence in this project, I'm confident Lucas isn't going to pay for a Best Western in the Presidio.

Anyway, I found a pic of the crane at the new St. Anthony's 10-story, 90-unit senior housing complex going up on Jones.

source

[mt_climber13]

Originally Posted by WonderlandPark

Good, really good historic knockoff/revival is very difficult to do these days and almost always comes off poor to middling. The old styles were built by true craftsmen

^^this.

[jbm]

it looks like the wrap on the market st side of 1600 market has come off.

[Jerry of San Fran]

View from my window. It looks like the construction crane will be dismantled today, Saturday, 09/21/13. Light rain may delay cause a delay. I am pleasantly pleased with the building - I love the yellow & white panels. The building looks very nice from the street level. If only that were true a block away at Crescent Heights development.

There were several news stories about Mid Market being blighted but changing. I prefer to think of it as once being underutilized. And how is the city to deal with the hoards of bums and crazy people on the street? I get a crime report every day from CrimeMapping.com and it is not encouraging what I see happening in my neighborhood.


AVA55Ninth - 55 9th St. by Apollo's Light, on Flickr