The Great Canadian Skyline Thread! II - Page 319

Chadillaccc · #**6361** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 5:03 PM**

Oh that's the updated one? I think we were referring to the 2012 one before then.

Looks like Calgary has 65 million sq. ft total as of this year, with 3.6 million currently UC. With Toronto at a current 108.6 million sq. ft, and Montreal at 74 million sq. ft. Toronto with over 5 million sq. ft. UC and Montreal with nearly 2 million UC. These are the three leaders of the country! Not bad at all! Vancouver's suburban office space is very impressive. Once this boom is over, Calgary may very-well be giving Montreal a run for its money in the #2 spot. Currently with 3.6 million UC and at least another 5 million proposed. Mtl will still be comfy in #2 for at least a while though!

franktko · #**6362** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 5:05 PM**

If you're adding both downtown and suburban, then Montreal is 74 million sq (Edit: and Toronto is 138 M sq)

Chadillaccc · #**6363** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 5:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by franktko

If you're adding both downtown and suburban, then Montreal is 74 million sq

Oh shit, sorry, I combined the suburban total with the core class A. I thought something looked wrong there.

Coldrsx · #**6364** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 5:14 PM**

vanatox · #**6365** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 5:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Oh that's the updated one? I think we were referring to the 2012 one before then.

Looks like Calgary has 65 million sq. ft total as of this year, with 3.6 million currently UC. With Toronto at a current 108.6 million sq. ft, and Montreal at 48 million sq. ft. Toronto with over 5 million sq. ft. UC and Montreal with nearly 2 million UC. These are the three leaders of the country! Not bad at all! Vancouver's suburban office space is very impressive.

Montreal has 74 million sq ft total, in second position. 2 millions under construction and this number will likely go up soon with all the talk about upcoming projects.

edit: ok, I'm a bit late...

franktko · #**6366** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 5:23 PM**

Geez, with 426 million sq ft in Washington DC, it's almost as much as the entire country!!! (440 million sq ft)

Chadillaccc · #**6367** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 5:41 PM**

God damn it I wish we measured metros the same the Americans do, or more accurately, I wish they measured it the same as us. I'm sure if you looked at Toronto's American-style metro area (the Greater Golden Horseshoe) you would see an exponential increase in Toronto's suburban office space, similar to Washington's 304 million sq. ft. of suburban space, Dallas' 259 million sq. ft., and Houston's 160 million sq. ft.

How many sq. ft. is the Pentagon?

EDIT: the Pentagon is over 6.6 million sq. ft.

franktko · #**6368** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 5:46 PM**

The Pentagon is a large office building, with about 6,500,000 sq ft (600,000 m2), of which 3,700,000 sq ft (340,000 m2) are used as offices.

So what the hell is happening in the other 2.8 million sq ft??

niwell · #**6369** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 6:00 PM**

I have no idea where this is coming from, but I remember a discussion on this forum from some time ago where it was said that office space in American and Canadian cities was actually measured differently. How I have no idea!

It's pretty clear that Washington's space is so large due to government facilities and ancillary uses. I wonder if this is measured the same in Canada.

LeftCoaster · #**6370** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 6:00 PM**

Meeting rooms, cafeterias, mechanical rooms, hallways etc etc etc...

LeftCoaster · #**6371** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 6:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Oh that's the updated one? I think we were referring to the 2012 one before then.

Not updated, different brokerage. I use CBRE data, and the one posted above comes from Colliers. Both are great sources and both use Q2 2013 figures, but there are always small discrepancies between each brokerage house on total figures, as once you get away from the AAA downtown space things get a bit hazier.

the two figures that really pop for me are Calgary's absorption rate for 2013 and the amount of suburban office space U/C in Vancouver. Both are pretty scary numbers.

Chadillaccc · #**6372** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 6:05 PM**

Scary?

LeftCoaster · #**6373** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 6:09 PM**

Vancouver is building over 2 million square feet of suburban office space yet current vacancy is 9.7% and absorption for the year is negative so far. Very scary scenario for landlords.

Calgary has -500,000 SF absorption downtown and 1,000,000 SF of suburban absorption indicating a lot of lost space downtown and huge demand in the suburbs. With the amount of product coming to market downtown Calgary that's a little scary.

Chadillaccc · #**6374** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 6:14 PM**

I'm sure we'll be fine. We have the negative space because of Imperial Oil I'm pretty sure. They're moving out to the burbs.

Anyways, here's some skyline!

Calgary Landscape-4 by tmatthews524, on Flickr

Calgary Landscape-3 by tmatthews524, on Flickr

Ramako · #**6375** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 6:18 PM**

Vacancy rates in Toronto are lower than I thought. Decent amount of space is being absorbed downtown too. I wonder if this boom has anything left in it for another major office tower.

haljackey · #**6376** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 6:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramako

Vacancy rates in Toronto are lower than I thought. Decent amount of space is being absorbed downtown too. I wonder if this boom has anything left in it for another major office tower.

Demand for class "AAA" commercial office space is quite high right now. That could translate into another large commercial office tower, perhaps Toronto's first serious supertall proposal.

taal · #**6377** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 6:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Vancouver is building over 2 million square feet of suburban office space yet current vacancy is 9.7% and absorption for the year is negative so far. Very scary scenario for landlords.

Calgary has -500,000 SF absorption downtown and 1,000,000 SF of suburban absorption indicating a lot of lost space downtown and huge demand in the suburbs. With the amount of product coming to market downtown Calgary that's a little scary.

FYI - you need to be careful with those figures - though I see you did look year to date; as that's a better indicator, or it can be.

This is particularly true when new buildings come on the market, as usually you'll see a huge amount of positive absorption in one quarter if firm A moves a lot of space to a new building ... but later that space will come on the market in the form of a sub-lease ... and assuming that spaces does not get leased ... overall the total vacancy rate has really increased (at least in the short term) ! Even though that quarter had a huge amount of absorption which looks like a positive ...

It can work the other way as well.

1ajs · #**6378** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 10:34 PM**

from the winnipeg free press

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/

Beedok · #**6379** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 11:05 PM**

Hamilton doesn't even get counted.

Cyro · #**6380** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 11:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ajs

from the winnipeg free press

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/

Cool and all but I posted this pic in the The Great Canadian Skyline thread for CMAs 1 million and under

Are these duplicate threads and we can post in both.... and if so why? Thx...