Winnipeg Construction VIII

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

So why is it that Winnipeg doesn't have a need for downtown office space? Is it due to the abundance of stupid suburban business parks that people like myself are stuck in? I would love to work downtown but there aren't many options for myself, really zero options.... Just thinking how the office portions of any project are always difficult. Chalk it up to the Winnipeg culture I guess...

I don't think it's so much the Winnipeg culture as it is the fact that we are a relatively small, moderate growth city. It always floors me when I go from downtown Toronto to Pearson Airport... you see hundreds of suburban office buildings, any one of which could easily be the biggest suburban office building in Winnipeg. The signs on those buildings herald corporations that hardly anyone their industry has ever heard of, yet they have dozens if not hundreds of employees. If even a few of them decide to make the move downtown, well, there's another 30-storey tower going up on Bay Street. Then there's Calgary, which has companies relocating there from all over Canada... I'm not sure I can recall a large head office relocating to Winnipeg during my entire lifetime.

Winnipeg just doesn't have the Toronto or Calgary dynamics... there aren't that many companies prepared to relocate from the suburbs to downtown, and no big companies are moving to Winnipeg from other cities. Some of the bigger downtown moves in recent years have just filled spaces left behind when other companies moved out, like MTS filling the old BMO space when it moved from St. James or MNP filling the old Agricore space when it moved from St. James. Soon someone will fill a huge space left behind on Main Street when the Wheat Board was decimated. Hydro and Stantec's relocations have prompted the construction of new buildings, but that's still pretty rare. Government departments and crown corporations still move downtown from time to time, but there aren't many left. Once Liquor and Lotteries goes downtown (and potentially prompts construction of SoPo's office building, unless they decide to fill the existing ex-Wheat Board space given that it's probably a lot cheaper), there won't be much left to move.

TL;DR: It's not so much a matter of culture as it is a situation where there just aren't that many businesses to move downtown.

[rrskylar]

Looks like the city is still struggling to find a hotelier to build a hotel on the site of the former Carlton Inn that CentreVenture (tax dollars) paid $6.5 million for. As a key part of the convention centre expansion the hotel was to provide tax revenue to help fund the expansion, guess who gets to pay once again.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

.....hold on, sorry, sorry, sorry - I had a brain cramp. I was thinking of the empty lot on St Mary and Donald (MPI-2). Sorry for any confusion and empty excitement.

.....sorry Viking wrong spot.

CentreVenture must be up to something with the block of Graham between Kennedy and Edmonton Sts., because it is shaded on their development map.

That would be a great location to see redeveloped... it's annoying to have a surface parking lot right in the middle of the liveliest part of Graham.

As for the SHED in general, it's easy to give in to the temptation to write it off as the latest installment of the typical Winnipeg buck-short and day-late approach to jumping on urban redevelopment fads, kind of like with Portage Place in the mid/late 80s. However, there really has been a fair bit built with a lot more planned in the SHED area... if the planned projects actually get built there could be a very different feel in that precinct. To that extent I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but I hate to see CentreVenture get so wrapped up in the SHED that they neglect working on creating actual liveable downtown neighbourhoods.

The name itself is dumb, though. We're used to it, but I'm a bit embarrassed at the thought of visitors seeing signs plastered all over downtown heralding "THE SHED". Sheds are for lawnmowers!

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by trueviking

yeah it is...I was just joking.

I do hate that parking lot.

Other than the fact that the older medical arts building is no longer there, I actually prefer the newer picture, it has a pedestrian neckdown that prevents excessive speeds by cars when doing corners. Also parking on the South side of the street (Eastbound). It actually creates a much more pedestrian friendly scenario -- which is arguably what you want from a transit mall.

The older picture has such a narrow sidewalk it just looks awful.

[Riverman]

CTV Winnipeg is another business that moved downtown from St. James.

[DancingDuck]

I will most likely be posting some pictures of some of the downtown developments later today... Would you guys prefer I posted them all here, or in their respective threads?

[trueviking]

yeah, nobody is building office space anymore...look at Toronto's boom, all residential, Vancouver has maybe one going up.....when hydro was under construction Winnipeg was third in the country for square footage of office space being built in a downtown.

steve...I agree about graham looking better....its a nice environment...if we can fill those lots it will be awesome.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

CentreVenture must be up to something with the block of Graham between Kennedy and Edmonton Sts., because it is shaded on their development map.

That would be a great location to see redeveloped... it's annoying to have a surface parking lot right in the middle of the liveliest part of Graham.

As for the SHED in general, it's easy to give in to the temptation to write it off as the latest installment of the typical Winnipeg buck-short and day-late approach to jumping on urban redevelopment fads, kind of like with Portage Place in the mid/late 80s. However, there really has been a fair bit built with a lot more planned in the SHED area... if the planned projects actually get built there could be a very different feel in that precinct. To that extent I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but I hate to see CentreVenture get so wrapped up in the SHED that they neglect working on creating actual liveable downtown neighbourhoods.

The name itself is dumb, though. We're used to it, but I'm a bit embarrassed at the thought of visitors seeing signs plastered all over downtown heralding "THE SHED". Sheds are for lawnmowers!

yeah I thought SHED was a working title...I cant believe they are putting signs up calling it that.

do you think though that all the development would have happened anyways?....what is this 'district' accomplishing?....is it not the MTS centre that is attracting all of this?...seems to me the SHED is simply streetscaping...which in itself isn't a bad thing.

I agree...the focus must be on multi use complete neighbourhood...I don't want our urban planning department (ross McGowan) to get caught up in electronic billboards and LED lights as neighbourhood building....they say mixed use is part of it but I can see that being lip service.

[Wigglez]

And SOMEHOW there's MORE people walking down the street in the new picture than the old... How often does that happen in a new-vs-old picture of downtown Winnipeg.

[trueviking]

why is centreventure 'creating' anything is my question....who made them the urban planning department?

[headhorse]

Originally Posted by DancingDuck

I will most likely be posting some pictures of some of the downtown developments later today... Would you guys prefer I posted them all here, or in their respective threads?

you could post them here, but maybe use the spoiler option?

[headhorse]

Originally Posted by Biff

.....hold on, sorry, sorry, sorry - I had a brain cramp. I was thinking of the empty lot on St Mary and Donald (MPI-2). Sorry for any confusion and empty excitement.

.....sorry Viking wrong spot.

too bad, any idea when we'll hear more about those towers at the St Mary/Donald location then?

also curious as to when more information about the new UofW residence and the old Gio's site is going to come out? I realized the developers behind the Gio's project are same the one's doing that awful faux-heritage project (that probably should have at least one CRU for it's location) at 522 River.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by pegcityfan

Potentially new developments or wishful thinking on CentreVenture's part? See page 2

http://www.shedwinnipeg.com/wp-content/u...-Master-Plan-Vision-Document_Preview.pdf

A couple of interesting observations based on this diagram:

- The MPI Donald lot development does not cover the whole block that the surface lot does suggesting some surface lot may remain.

- the WCB lot is shown as being developed, I thought that was near impossible.

- the surface lot at York and Hargrave appears to be remaining.

- the surface lot owned by St Mary's Catherdal appears to be planned for development.

- Medical Arts surface lot/Pinnacle building redevelopment.

- the missing Lakeview hotel(s) project next to the WCC.

- the missing Remand expansion/renovation.

It would be nice if anyone has further insights on these to have a few more details.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

And SOMEHOW there's MORE people walking down the street in the new picture than the old... How often does that happen in a new-vs-old picture of downtown Winnipeg.

It is really hard to compare people on the street in new versus old there as transit routers were moved off Portage (old) to Graham (new). The new picture has parked vehicles that block most of the view on the south side sidewalk and the peopel you do see are mostly waiting at a major bus stop.

It is interesting though that in the old picture you can see CityPlace in the distance with what appear to be windows on the first two floors that look very similar to some of the recent concept pictures from CentreVenture. Those concept pictures make me wonder if there is a plan to do a cosmectic change to CityPlace and essentially glue fake windows on it to make it look lessl ike a solid walled fortress.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by DancingDuck

I will most likely be posting some pictures of some of the downtown developments later today... Would you guys prefer I posted them all here, or in their respective threads?

Nice to hear..(well see)
Reg: Pictures I was told by a long time poster some time ago you can make the same post(pictures..etc) in up to 3 seperate threads if related to that specific thread.. So if it was the Alt dev. you could post it In General Construction, as well as the thread specific to it ie: Centre Point Project Development Updates.
Same for WCC..etc. Even the Canadian thread in ie: Construction sites in your city/town.

Your choice on how in depth you want to cover it across the board.I have at times with no issue.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by CoryB

It is really hard to compare people on the street in new versus old there as transit routers were moved off Portage (old) to Graham (new). The new picture has parked vehicles that block most of the view on the south side sidewalk and the peopel you do see are mostly waiting at a major bus stop.

It is interesting though that in the old picture you can see CityPlace in the distance with what appear to be windows on the first two floors that look very similar to some of the recent concept pictures from CentreVenture. Those concept pictures make me wonder if there is a plan to do a cosmectic change to CityPlace and essentially glue fake windows on it to make it look lessl ike a solid walled fortress.

I know why people are standing there now, I used to bus down there every day (now take a different route). It's just nice to see people there for any reason, more people downtown is always going to be better!

Also, someone mentioned that CityPlace was going to go over a major either redevelopment or cosmetic upgrade in the near future (I believe it was Drew). Maybe re-installing windows on the bottom 2 floors is part of that! Is the work still going to be done, if anyone knows?

[lilwayne]

the hotel was supposed to be such a major component in the expansion of wcc, Im shocked that they still haven't been able to secure a hoteller for that site.. If they are unable to reach a deal by the time construction is completed. this project is a complete failure.. and tax payer money pit.. I keep supporting and defending peg city... but the fact that were moving at such a snails pace with all these projects is really frustrating and pissing me off. Im glad theres work being done but damnit d condos should be in the process of being built already... and like theres no confirmation on glasshouse no word on so/po.. no details on wag expansion.. Its all a bunch of bs to me man.. i think at this rate none of this will be built until 2020.. by than calgary, edmonton, toronto would have had 50 new high rises each.. hell maybe reginas skyline would be bigger

on a positive i actually like how the museum turned out... and the new u of w field house is looking real good aswell.

[pegcityfan]

Originally Posted by CoryB

A couple of interesting observations based on this diagram:

- The MPI Donald lot development does not cover the whole block that the surface lot does suggesting some surface lot may remain.

- the WCB lot is shown as being developed, I thought that was near impossible.

- the surface lot at York and Hargrave appears to be remaining.

- the surface lot owned by St Mary's Catherdal appears to be planned for development.

- Medical Arts surface lot/Pinnacle building redevelopment.

- the missing Lakeview hotel(s) project next to the WCC.

- the missing Remand expansion/renovation.

It would be nice if anyone has further insights on these to have a few more details.

Lakeview hotel is not happening (they've been planning for decades). They even offered the Convention Centre their land to develop it's hotel but CentreVenture wanted Carlton Inn.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by trueviking

why is centreventure 'creating' anything is my question....who made them the urban planning department?

Kind of what I was alluding to in my post about the convention centre expansion as well, why is centreventure involved in projects like this anyway?

Centreventure seems to have been given carte blanche to bypass the city planners, politicians and even private developers to the benefit of the lucky few who sit on the board. Thought the whole idea of centreventure was to spur growth not direct it. Centreventure is basically an old boys club for those used to getting their own way and the last thing they need is politicians and planners in the way of what THEY choose to do!

[drew]

Originally Posted by trueviking

yeah it is...I was just joking.

I do hate that parking lot.

Love these types of comparison pictures.

Kudos to O'Neill&Hunter as well as Fabric Centre for still being in business in a somewhat challenging area.