Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[elly63]

I think part of my lack of interest in the NFL comes from (as Bob McCown would say) a lack of a rooting interest. Also I just find 4 downs to get 10 really lame (but that is my opinion) I watch a little of the Bears to keep an eye on Marc Trestman (and hope he does well) but that's it.

I can't relate to any of the players: millionaires who went to schools I'm not familiar with and I don't care for the fantasy and betting stuff.

I like the CFL because I'm familiar with the schools the Canadians come from and have known or been familiar with players who have played there (a rooting interest). I would like to think I have more in common with Regina than Jacksonville. The Riders were my favourite team 30 years before it was cool.

What I don't like are people, one of whom who posts here, who put down our own, why would somebody do that? It's just so weak.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Anyway, what a media and entertainment juggernaut. And it just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Whether you are a fan or not, the spectacle is almost awe-inspiring.

Not saying the CFL is dead or even a hopeless case, but it certainly has its work cut out for it and things aren't going to get any easier.

Dude, you don't seem to be paying attention. The CFL has never been more prosperous or popular on television. The NFL is truly a juggernaut, as you say, but not in Canada. In television ratings, the CFL is superior to all weekly sports broadcasts, with the exception of Hockey Night in Canada.

Take this weekend, for example. The CFL went head-to-head with the opening Sunday of the NFL. How did the CFL do against the "awe-inspiring" juggernaut on its opening day? The CFL crushed the NFL. The CFL's Banjo Bowl was the most watched sports broadcast in the nation by far:

SUNDAY, AUGUST 8, 2013

CFL:

Saskatchewan Roughriders vs. Winnipeg Blue Bombers: 1.073 million viewers


NFL (OPENING DAY):

New York Giants vs. Dallas Cowboys: 484,000 viewers

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Anyway, what a media and entertainment juggernaut. And it just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Whether you are a fan or not, the spectacle is almost awe-inspiring.

Just to get off topic for a second I watched a good documentary last night, Exporting Raymond, about Everybody Loves Raymond show runner Phil Rosenthal taking the show to Russia. (I highly recommend it by the way) torrent hint, hint

I worked in TV news and production for over a decade (and before that was raised around it) and know a bit about the biz but this guy is a genius.

The NFL is like TV programs in Russia, people tune in more for the sizzle than the steak. In Russia they couldn't buy into the concepts of believability and commonality. Everything had to be over the top, not an ordinary family. That's how I see the NFL, the game itself has been lost in the hype.

One thing Rosenthal said in an interview about how ubiquitous celebrity news and entertainment now is, was that if they killed 75% of it, the 25% left would still be too much. I totally agree, but children being raised in this environment don't know any better and have no idea how much society has been "dumbed down"

[elly63]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

I’ll freely admit to preferring the NFL over the CFL – but I would never support a team in Toronto

I honestly can't see T.O. attracting 60k+ crowds after the honeymoon was over. Baseball was king for a while but the 50k+ days are over and it has settled into its own level, NFL football would do the same.

As for the Argos if you go back and look at the attendance records they are all over the map, good and bad.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Baseball returns to Montreal on March 28-29, 2014

NEW YORK -- Baseball is returning to Montreal, if only for two days.

The Blue Jays and Mets will play a pair of exhibition games at Olympic Stadium at the end of March, according to a source. Though neither team has officially confirmed the games, Sportsnet.ca, which first reported the series, indicated that an announcement will come Tuesday.

A Major League Baseball spokesman declined comment on the series.

A Major League ballpark for 28 years, Olympic Stadium has not hosted a professional baseball game since the Expos left for Washington after the 2004 season. Since that time, the park has been used sporadically for Canadian professional football and soccer events.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Dude, you don't seem to be paying attention. The CFL has never been more prosperous or popular on television. The NFL is truly a juggernaut, as you say, but not in Canada. In television ratings, the CFL is superior to all weekly sports broadcasts, with the exception of Hockey Night in Canada.

Take this weekend, for example. The CFL went head-to-head with the opening Sunday of the NFL. How did the CFL do against the "awe-inspiring" juggernaut on its opening day? The CFL crushed the NFL. The CFL's Banjo Bowl was the most watched sports broadcast in the nation by far:

CFL:

Saskatchewan Roughriders vs. Winnipeg Blue Bombers: 1.073 million viewers


NFL (OPENING SUNDAY):

New York Giants vs. Dallas Cowboys: 484,000 viewers

Sorry dude, but I am paying attention. The CFL today is healthier than it has been in decades and its TV ratings for individual games generally best those for most individual NFL games. (I would suspect though that the total number of Canadian eyeballs that watched NFL football on the weekend is higher than those that watched CFL games, given that the number of available NFL games is much higher.)

Anyway, the CFL renaissance of the last 10-15 years is a pleasant surprise for me as I have always been pro-CFL.

I was simply pointing out a big challenge that the league faces in turning the corner for good and becoming more relevant in the problematic markets that it still has.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Anyway, what a media and entertainment juggernaut. And it just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Whether you are a fan or not, the spectacle is almost awe-inspiring.

Not saying the CFL is dead or even a hopeless case, but it certainly has its work cut out for it and things aren't going to get any easier.

I guess so, but that's the reason I don't watch it. I don't want to see a spectacle ... I want to see people playing football. When I've seen NFL games I get the feeling that the stuff on the field is an excuse for a TV production. Many "fans" talk with more passion about the TV ads that are broadcast during the Super Bowl than they do about any actual plays that are made in the game -- in the Grey Cup it's 90% football and 10% "spectacle". The NFL hype is just not what I'm personally looking for, but obviously a lot of people are.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I guess so, but that's the reason I don't watch it. I don't want to see a spectacle ... I want to see people playing football. When I've seen NFL games I get the feeling that the stuff on the field is an excuse for a TV production. Many "fans" talk with more passion about the TV ads that are broadcast during the Super Bowl than they do about any actual plays that are made in the game -- in the Grey Cup it's 90% football and 10% "spectacle". The NFL hype is just not what I'm personally looking for, but obviously a lot of people are.

Praise Allah!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

I think part of my lack of interest in the NFL comes from (as Bob McCown would say) a lack of a rooting interest. Also I just find 4 downs to get 10 really lame (but that is my opinion) I watch a little of the Bears to keep an eye on Marc Trestman (and hope he does well) but that's it.

I can't relate to any of the players: millionaires who went to schools I'm not familiar with and I don't care for the fantasy and betting stuff.

I like the CFL because I'm familiar with the schools the Canadians come from and have known or been familiar with players who have played there (a rooting interest). I would like to think I have more in common with Regina than Jacksonville. The Riders were my favourite team 30 years before it was cool.

What I don't like are people, one of whom who posts here, who put down our own, why would somebody do that? It's just so weak.

I am pretty much the same. I don't have anything more than a passing interest for the NFL for this reason, and find it downright bizarre that someone in Sudbury, Ontario or Brandon, Manitoba can be a die-hard, obsessive Dallas Cowboys or Indianapolis Colts fan with the custom licence plate cover, 300-dollar jerseys, custom bed linen for the kids...

I guess I maybe get it if people are from Windsor (Detroit) or Fort Erie (Buffalo) in Ontario, but other than that...

I guess I am just a person with too strong a sense of place and cultural identity to go along with that.

Some would call me less open-minded for that I suppose, but I don't see it that way at all.

I'm interested in plenty stuff from around the world, but I still can differentiate between what's "mine" and what isn't.

And that doesn't mean I won't like something simply because it isn't "mine"... but somehow I get the impression a lot of people are on the extreme opposite end: they go out of their way to ignore what's "theirs".

OK, all of this was hopelessly convoluted I realize...

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

and find it downright bizarre that someone in Sudbury, Ontario or Brandon, Manitoba can be a die-hard, obsessive Dallas Cowboys or Indianapolis Colts fan with the custom licence plate cover, 300-dollar jerseys, custom bed linen for the kids...

but somehow I get the impression a lot of people are on the extreme opposite end: they go out of their way to ignore what's "theirs".

Amen

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by elly63

Praise Allah!

The one thing that gets me is that the "biggest NFL Fans" in Canada have to ALWAYS put down the CFL to justify why the NFL is better, etc.

I personally find it difficult to cheer for an NFL team or any team when it is not a home town team (ie: got interested in the NBA when we had the Grizzlies and now really don't care). The best part of the NFL and the "fan" experience IMHO is actually being at the stadium, tailgating and having fun before the game, and then going into the stadium and cheer your team with a huge crowd.

It sucks that the liquor laws in Canada don't allow for it because I think in some markets (ie: Van, Tor and Mtl) it would help with the fan interest and attendance in the CFL
Bottom Line: I am a CFL and BC Lions fan no matter what, casual interest in the NFL, but do not need to put it down to make the CFL seem better. A football fan is a football fan, period....some just have a preference in leagues.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I guess so, but that's the reason I don't watch it. I don't want to see a spectacle ... I want to see people playing football. When I've seen NFL games I get the feeling that the stuff on the field is an excuse for a TV production. Many "fans" talk with more passion about the TV ads that are broadcast during the Super Bowl than they do about any actual plays that are made in the game -- in the Grey Cup it's 90% football and 10% "spectacle". The NFL hype is just not what I'm personally looking for, but obviously a lot of people are.

And that's why I also can't usually watch an NFL game in its entirety. It's like eating 10 cotton candies - you OD on all the "sugar".

[Acajack]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed but it appears these days there is a trend at NFL games where the entire crowd stands for every play.

I suppose this does not happen if the home team starts trailing 31-0, but if it even remotely close people can stand for most of the game.

I noticed this last night watching MNF that even on the opening drives people in the stadium were standing.

Of course, standing for every play probably isn't that physically demanding anyway:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406.html

[Barnard's Star]

Originally Posted by elly63

I'm beginning to form the opinion that MLSE's motives may not be as sinister as we may believe. They may be of the opinion that the NFL "dream" is either dead or a very long way off.

After mulling this over I've come to the same conclusion. MLSE isn't stupid -- you don't make a business plan based on a hypothetical that will likely never happen. They want to see a revitalized Argos followed by the NFL but would likely settle for a revitalized Argos.

Has anyone read estimates on current Argos losses? I'm guessing they're less than the 3 - 4 million the TSN deal is going to bring the team, which means they're in the black this time next year. Not surprisingly, a suitor is lurking. And as much as I respect David Braley's commitment to the league he seemed a little demographically dense in the last interview I heard. (Let's move to Vaughn because there's a large Italian community present... )

I guess the big question now is BMO. Will the FC scream bloody murder? Is a suitable reno even possible?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Barnard's Star

Has anyone read estimates on current Argos losses? I'm guessing they're less than the 3 - 4 million the TSN deal is going to bring the team, which means they're in the black this time next year. Not surprisingly, a suitor is lurking.

Chris Rudge recently said they're in the red but you have to wonder what their financial position is when they made 15 million from the Grey Cup which is about 3x as much as most Grey Cups profit

Originally Posted by Barnard's Star

And as much as I respect David Braley's commitment to the league he seemed a little demographically dense in the last interview I heard. (Let's move to Vaughn because there's a large Italian community present

Where that came from was they've done demographic studies and the biggest audience for the Argos are Italians...go figure. So if that is a large target market, they would want to situate the new stadium where their core fans are.

Originally Posted by Barnard's Star

I guess the big question now is BMO. Will the FC scream bloody murder? Is a suitable reno even possible?

Yes and yes.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

The one thing that gets me is that the "biggest NFL Fans" in Canada have to ALWAYS put down the CFL to justify why the NFL is better, etc.

I personally find it difficult to cheer for an NFL team or any team when it is not a home town team (ie: got interested in the NBA when we had the Grizzlies and now really don't care). The best part of the NFL and the "fan" experience IMHO is actually being at the stadium, tailgating and having fun before the game, and then going into the stadium and cheer your team with a huge crowd.

It sucks that the liquor laws in Canada don't allow for it because I think in some markets (ie: Van, Tor and Mtl) it would help with the fan interest and attendance in the CFL
Bottom Line: I am a CFL and BC Lions fan no matter what, casual interest in the NFL, but do not need to put it down to make the CFL seem better. A football fan is a football fan, period....some just have a preference in leagues.

Calgary sort of turns a blind eye and allows a bit of tailgating and the Riders throw an official tailgate party on the practice field next to the stadium before every game with beer gardens, food, children's entertainment (air play-structures, face painting, etc), live music sometimes, there's a smallish drumline they just started up with co-operation from the U of R conservatory that did a little performance before heading to the stadium, the pep band... The Riders have done a pretty good job in turning gameday into an event, and one that has something for basically all ages. I'd say at least 5k fans cycle through there before heading to their seats in the stadium, possibly more this year due to averaging 40k fans per game. Do any of the other teams do that at all?


Also, perhaps a mod should come in and flop some of this convo to the CFL Current and Future franchises thread? As interesting as this discussion is (and I've been fully a part of it), it's kind of really starting to get off of the Stadium/Arena construction theme. The health of a national sports league definitely makes national arenas/stadiums possible, but it's starting to get a bit tangential.

[Prometheus]

As long as Princes' Blvd can be rerouted more to the south, and the parking lot to the east can be encroached upon, then an expansion of BMO seems possible.

[Chadillaccc]

Hey Nathan, any news or movement with the new Regina Stadium?

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't know if anyone else has noticed but it appears these days there is a trend at NFL games where the entire crowd stands for every play.

I suppose this does not happen if the home team starts trailing 31-0, but if it even remotely close people can stand for most of the game.

I noticed this last night watching MNF that even on the opening drives people in the stadium were standing.

Of course, standing for every play probably isn't that physically demanding anyway:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406.html

People stand at Rider games for the introductions and opening kickoff, then if it's close at the end, people stand while yelling when we're on defence. There is one section that does stand all game though... the old university section (section 28), which is also the rowdiest part of the stadium.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Hey Nathan, any news or movement with the new Regina Stadium?

They are continuing with site prep, i.e. moving power and gas lines, demolishing current buildings (Jubilee, Saskatchewan, Heritage) that are on site, etc. No news on design or selection will occur until late this year/early next.

Also, don't be fooled by the name... The Heritage Building doesn't have any historical or design "heritage", it's just a name.