YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by casper

With 737 aircraft Vancouver and Victoria are the only Canadian cities that WestJet can operate flights to Hawaii with taking a large penalty.

Very good point. If their planes had the range, you can guarantee that they'd fly from Calgary as well. I'm sure there's demand, especially given Calgary's corporate population.

[Gordon]

Westjet is leasing 2 752s to fly from Alberta to Hawaii a total of 8 or 10 flights \wk split between Calgary & Edmonton.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Very good point. If their planes had the range, you can guarantee that they'd fly from Calgary as well. I'm sure there's demand, especially given Calgary's corporate population.

Hence why they lease the 757s. They will eventually sort out something permanent I am sure. Westjet has really hurt AC's YYC-Hawaii market. YYC-HNL has been cut altogether and YYC-OGG cut to 4 weekly. Effectively cutting capacity in half.

WS has also taken a bite out of AC YVR-Hawaii. This winter both YVR-HNL and YVR-OGG are being cut to 6 weekly each from daily and the once weekly YVR-KOA remains though.

Westjet on the other hand will have 6 daily YVR-Hawaii. 2 daily each to HNL and OGG and once daily each to KOA and LIH. Westjet seems to be holding its own against AC and the Bellingham flights offered on Allegiant and Alaska.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Hawaiian add YVR to their ever expanding international network. If they played their cards right they could tap into the YVR-NZ/Australia market. Hmmmm.

[Gordon]

the only daily service Air Canada has is from yvr. no non stopsd from ther major hub (yyz) either

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

................

Wouldn't surprise me to see Hawaiian add YVR to their ever expanding international network. If they played their cards right they could tap into the YVR-NZ/Australia market. Hmmmm.

How would they do this, in your opinion? Surely there would be a necessary change of plane at HNL, (no Fifth Freedoms, I'm sure) but would they then expand, offering connecting flights to BNE, SYD, and MEL, or what? Currently their only Australian destination is SYD, which we already have.
Also, there's talk of YVR-BNE nonstop by AC once it gets enough Dreamliners....
and what about MEL?

Do you have any schematics or feedback on this? Thanks!

In fact, looking at Hawaiian Airlines destinations, HNL would weem a great connecting point for PPG (Pago Pago) and PPT, but with
their only onward flight from HNL to Australia being SYD, they'd need to offer some deals on that route, would they not?

http://www.hawaiianairlines.com/aboutus/pages/routemap.aspx

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Hence why they lease the 757s. They will eventually sort out something permanent I am sure. Westjet has really hurt AC's YYC-Hawaii market. YYC-HNL has been cut altogether and YYC-OGG cut to 4 weekly. Effectively cutting capacity in half.

WS has also taken a bite out of AC YVR-Hawaii. This winter both YVR-HNL and YVR-OGG are being cut to 6 weekly each from daily and the once weekly YVR-KOA remains though.

Westjet on the other hand will have 6 daily YVR-Hawaii. 2 daily each to HNL and OGG and once daily each to KOA and LIH. Westjet seems to be holding its own against AC and the Bellingham flights offered on Allegiant and Alaska.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Hawaiian add YVR to their ever expanding international network. If they played their cards right they could tap into the YVR-NZ/Australia market. Hmmmm.

AC flies 240-260 seats 767's and WS flies 160 seats 737's. Plus Alaska and Allegiant are denting both Canadian carriers HI business with flights out of BLI.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

How would they do this, in your opinion? Surely there would be a necessary change of plane at HNL, (no Fifth Freedoms, I'm sure) but would they then expand, offering connecting flights to BNE, SYD, and MEL, or what? Currently their only Australian destination is SYD, which we already have.

Why would fifth-freedoms be an issue given they are a US Carrier operating on US land. I suggest re-reading up the freedoms of the air and understanding each of them

----

I wouldn't be surprised if ACs Hawaii flights get transferred to Rouge when they expand it over to the West Coast.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by deasine

I wouldn't be surprised if ACs Hawaii flights get transferred to Rouge when they expand it over to the West Coast.

That would seem the logical next step.

Hawaiian flies to Sydney, Brisbane and Auckland downunder. Melbourne is potentially a future destination as well. But for now Jetstar has that covered and in fact ramping up services later this year.

Nice to see this thread has woken up... YVR certainly hasn't been quiet for goings-on!

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Hence why they lease the 757s. They will eventually sort out something permanent I am sure.

I would believe the MAX order will take care of this problem. At that point I would not be surprised to see YYC-OGG go year round.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by deasine

Why would fifth-freedoms be an issue given they are a US Carrier operating on US land.

I suggest re-reading up the freedoms of the air and understanding each of them
----

I wouldn't be surprised if ACs Hawaii flights get transferred to Rouge when they expand it over to the West Coast.

Thank you. Got it it. I stand corrected.

But in any event, wouldn' HNL be more of a transfer point for people going to Tahiti or American Samoa, than to Australia? (unless the price is right, that is). AC seems to be planning a YVR-BNE bonstop using the Boeing Dreamliner to Brisbane in the next year or two. Brisbane's location geographically makes it the best "gateway" to Australia, on the northeast coast, and we already have the long-standing YVR-SYD run. We have Air NZ to Auckland ... just need to get Melbourne worked into the scheme somehow.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Thank you. Got it it. I stand corrected.

But in any event, wouldn' HNL be more of a transfer point for people going to Tahiti or American Samoa, than to Australia? (unless the price is right, that is).

But why wouldn't it be a good transfer point? A direct flight from YVR-SYD flies near HNL. The total distance of YVR-SYD direct is only 3 miles less than a YVR-SYD via HNL flight. Surprisingly, there's a considerable number of people that fly from North America to Australia via Asia, and this isn't too surprising because of the bolded part above, cheap prices. A business strategy like this would be similar to Finnair's Europe-Asia strategy, but this is assuming this is what Hawaiian is trying to do...

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by deasine

But why wouldn't it be a good transfer point? A direct flight from YVR-SYD flies near HNL. The total distance of YVR-SYD direct is only 3 miles less than a YVR-SYD via HNL flight. Surprisingly, there's a considerable number of people that fly from North America to Australia via Asia, and this isn't too surprising because of the bolded part above, cheap prices. A business strategy like this would be similar to Finnair's Europe-Asia strategy, but this is assuming this is what Hawaiian is trying to do...

Exactly. I have flown SYD-YVR many many times and the best flight was flying smack over HNL in the middle of the night all lit up.. Impressive sight!

As a frequent Australia-Canada traveller without a doubt there are soooo many options its crazy. AC seems to charge a premium for the "privilege" of flying non-stop. UA/DL/VA take quite a few passengers as well via SFO/LAX so to have HA in the mix would also shake things up. Perhaps Fiji Airways will have a stab at YVR again... who knows in this crazy world if aviation :-)

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by deasine

But why wouldn't it be a good transfer point? A direct flight from YVR-SYD flies near HNL. The total distance of YVR-SYD direct is only 3 miles less than a YVR-SYD via HNL flight. Surprisingly, there's a considerable number of people that fly from North America to Australia via Asia, and this isn't too surprising because of the bolded part above, cheap prices. A business strategy like this would be similar to Finnair's Europe-Asia strategy, but this is assuming this is what Hawaiian is trying to do...

I guess I was thinking of the current Sydney, Auckland, presumably-upcoming Brisbane, and eventual Melbourne flights in nonstop terms. If that means pricier tickets, then, hey sure, HNL would make the ideal tranfer point if the ticket prices are better, (and the airport layover time doesn't drag out too long.)

[NewfBC]

Hawaiian could make HNL the KEF of the west!

Ron.

[twoNeurons]

Most of the attraction for Hawaii is that trips to Australia are Sooooo long and not everyone wants to be in a steel tube for 16 hours and a break at the half way point in Hawaii is a most welcome stop, especially if Hawaiian airlines offers a few days layover in between at no or minimal cost.

Practically fly right over Hawaii.
YVR - AKL

Heck, I'd even consider taking Hawaiian airlines to Japan as they fly direct to Fukuoka, Osaka, Sapporo (seasonal) and Tokyo (Haneda).

source

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Exactly. I have flown SYD-YVR many many times and the best flight was flying smack over HNL in the middle of the night all lit up.. Impressive sight!

As a frequent Australia-Canada traveller without a doubt there are soooo many options its crazy. AC seems to charge a premium for the "privilege" of flying non-stop. UA/DL/VA take quite a few passengers as well via SFO/LAX so to have HA in the mix would also shake things up. Perhaps Fiji Airways will have a stab at YVR again... who knows in this crazy world if aviation :-)

Having done both, I would pay for the privilege of not being forced off the airplane and made to troop through US customs in the middle of the night in HNL when trying to get to Australia.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Having done both, I would pay for the privilege of not being forced off the airplane and made to troop through US customs in the middle of the night in HNL when trying to get to Australia.

Same. Did it once...never again! There are soooo many options via Asia. Via Tokyo, Seoul, Hong Kong, Taipei, Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, Manila. Some of the Asian carriers offer fantastic deals Australia-Canada that some people aren't even aware of....

In the last five years I have only done SYD-YVR or AKL-YVR. Best routings available by far.

Right now, the HNL option would be a good one for layovers only. Until they sort out the deplane, customs, re-load parade... That would be a tough sell. However if the price is right, I am sure many would do it.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Right now, the HNL option would be a good one for layovers only. Until they sort out the deplane, customs, re-load parade... That would be a tough sell. However if the price is right, I am sure many would do it.

They can't. It's absolutely mandatory to pass US Customs even on an international transit. No airport in the US has the facilities for transiting passengers because you are legally allowed to leave the secured area as it's considered domestic territory even on an international flight (whereas you cannot leave the secured area of an international section of the airport in Canada and most other parts of the world).

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Same. Did it once...never again!

In the last five years I have only done SYD-YVR or AKL-YVR. Best routings available by far.

Right now, the HNL option would be a good one for layovers only.

Seems as if you much prefer nonstops, as many people do. We have Syndey and Auckland, with Brisbane - Vancouver coming up on AC Dreamliner, now all we have to work on is a nonstop Melbourne flight!!

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by deasine

They can't. It's absolutely mandatory to pass US Customs even on an international transit. No airport in the US has the facilities for transiting passengers because you are legally allowed to leave the secured area as it's considered domestic territory even on an international flight (whereas you cannot leave the secured area of an international section of the airport in Canada and most other parts of the world).

I took the YVR-HNL-SYD flight on Air Canada several times about ten years ago (before they had the 777 direct), and they definitely let us off the plane to wander the terminal (you could also stay on the plane if you wanted). No customs clearance required. I remember this because I once misread the re-boarding time and nearly missed getting back on the plane.

Then again it's probable we pre-cleared US customs in Vancouver.