YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Valley_Refugee]

Flights from KEF-YVR will operate Tuesdays and Sundays though. Like Seattle, the planes will sit on the ground in YVR for about 23 hours.

I noticed that too. KEF-YVR should be less than a one frame commitment per round trip. The flight lands at 17:50, surely they could get a 757-2 back out by 19:30, landing in KEF around 09:30+1. However, checking their departures from KEF, most of their Scandianvian and Western European flights are around 7:30am, give or take. So the YVR-KEF is timed to arrive at 06:25 to connect onwards.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Edelweiss?

Edelweiss to ZRH was already in Kapten's list.

And just today, Edelweiss loaded their 2014 summer schedules.

As in 2013, twice weekly YVR-ZRH.

Flights will operate on Tuesdays and Sundays.

[trofirhen]

Please excuse my stating what everyone already knows, but regarding SEA-TAC airport catching up to YVR, It IS dramatic (the growth at SEA-TAC)

The growth statisitcs there are impressive, to say the least, and really don't allow for too much complacency about YVR being a "top dog" for Asian, and other overseas, destinations for the PNW, IMO. Click in the link and look, if interested. Thank you.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/brea...st-growing-airport-on-the-us-west-coast/

[deasine]

The increase is really due to DLs ramping up their operations at SEA. With the increases in MU flights and I'm sure there will be more from other Asian carriers, I wouldn't be surprised if YVRs change will be more drastic next year.

By the way, there are a lot of discussions in Chinese Aviation about removing the "one route one carrier" regulation (which I argue is ridiculous). If this gets removed and the aviation industry as whole becomes more deregulated, I wouldn't be surprised seeing CZ introduce YVR-PEK among many other flights. Chinese carriers are really focused in the TPAC market (as opposed to the Europe-Asia market due to saturation).

Also note, MU and CZ seem very content and settled with YVR (the increase in frequencies are a big indication of such). Even though they are both SkyTeam carriers, I don't think they will be flying to SEA anytime soon, and even if they do, it wouldn't be at the expense of YVR. If WS can increase their presence at YVR and act as a strong traffic feeder, there's less of a need to fly to SEA.

[Valley_Refugee]

Please excuse my stating what everyone already knows, but regarding SEA-TAC airport catching up to YVR, It IS dramatic (the growth at SEA-TAC)

The growth statisitcs there are impressive, to say the least, and really don't allow for too much complacency about YVR being a "top dog" for Asian, and other overseas, destinations for the PNW, IMO. Click in the link and look, if interested. Thank you.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/...us-west-coast/

Yes, trofirhen, the sky is falling...

SEA was underserved compared to YVR for a very long time. It also competed with SFO and LAX for traffic, whereas YVR is it on the Canadian west coast. Delta has also flirted with SEA as a focus city for years and it appears they've ramped up operations there once again. International tickets out of SEA are rarely much lower than YVR's, and almost never worth the cost of driving and parking.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Valley_Refugee

Yes, trofirhen, the sky is falling...

SEA was underserved compared to YVR for a very long time. It also competed with SFO and LAX for traffic, whereas YVR is it on the Canadian west coast. Delta has also flirted with SEA as a focus city for years and it appears they've ramped up operations there once again. International tickets out of SEA are rarely much lower than YVR's, and almost never worth the cost of driving and parking.

From personal experience we booked direct flights SEA-KIX (Osaka) a while back on Delta for relatives. Didn't want to deal with any transfers.

Problem is... the regulations for bringing food items into the US is more stringent than Canada. They said that in future they'll deal with the inconvenience of transferring in Tokyo.

I really miss AC's YVR-KIX and with the Japanese economy the way it is and Japan's focus on Haneda, I don't see Osaka on the map for a long time. AC's Asian product is quite good, though compared to asian airlines, their staff definitely still lacks youth and vigor.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by deasine

The increase is really due to DLs ramping up their operations at SEA. With the increases in MU flights and I'm sure there will be more from other Asian carriers, I wouldn't be surprised if YVRs change will be more drastic next year.

By the way, there are a lot of discussions in Chinese Aviation about removing the "one route one carrier" regulation (which I argue is ridiculous). If this gets removed and the aviation industry as whole becomes more deregulated, I wouldn't be surprised seeing CZ introduce YVR-PEK among many other flights. Chinese carriers are really focused in the TPAC market (as opposed to the Europe-Asia market due to saturation).

Also note, MU and CZ seem very content and settled with YVR (the increase in frequencies are a big indication of such). Even though they are both SkyTeam carriers, I don't think they will be flying to SEA anytime soon, and even if they do, it wouldn't be at the expense of YVR. If WS can increase their presence at YVR and act as a strong traffic feeder, there's less of a need to fly to SEA.

Originally Posted by Valley_Refugee

Yes, trofirhen, the sky is falling...

SEA was underserved compared to YVR for a very long time. It also competed with SFO and LAX for traffic, whereas YVR is it on the Canadian west coast. Delta has also flirted with SEA as a focus city for years and it appears they've ramped up operations there once again. International tickets out of SEA are rarely much lower than YVR's, and almost never worth the cost of driving and parking.

Yes, thank you, VR, I can see the sky isn't falling, as Deasine clearly points out.
Seattle itself is a bigger market in size, and in business travel (yeah yeah Microsoft, Boeing and all that) so I guess it merits Emirates and Paris (was AF now DL)
YVR has Sydney and Auckland, (SEA-TAC doesn't, I checked) with the possibility of Brisbane coming up, (too bad about losing Singapore way back, though. Could we ever get it back if some airline began Dreamliner nonstop?).
Meanwhile, Delta is expanding in Seattle, as noted.
Hmmmmmm
I wonder if Sea-TAC will become the Atlanta of the PNW?
Don't laugh. Seattle has a real economy. Vancouver doesn't, not yet, at least.
That does make a difference in justifying a route, very often it seems. Business Class travel revenue, that is.
Interesting that JAL pulled out of SEA-TAC, though. Vancouver remains. Is that because it's the gateway to Canada,
or simply because it's unprofitable against ramped-up DL Seattle service?

[cyeg66]

Perhaps because YVR is in Canada and SEA is in the U/S? Just putting that out there. The vast majority of people aren't enamoured with the notion of crossing a border after having flown for half a day, esp when the cost difference is negligible. Btw, the cost of flying in the US is bound to increase as their economy continues to swirl around the porcelain bowl and teeters on the brink (despite Obama's false claims of recovery/stability). YVR will continue to hold its own vis-à-vis SEA.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by cyeg66

Perhaps because YVR is in Canada and SEA is in the U/S? Just putting that out there. The vast majority of people aren't enamoured with the notion of crossing a border after having flown for half a day, esp when the cost difference is negligible. Btw, the cost of flying in the US is bound to increase as their economy continues to swirl around the porcelain bowl and teeters on the brink (despite Obama's false claims of recovery/stability). YVR will continue to hold its own vis-à-vis SEA.

Thank you I appreciate that positive feedback. Interstingly, the busiest international route per pax out of SEA-TAC is ... (drum roll) ... none other than YVR itself!! Tokyo is second, Seoul third, Amsterdam fourth and LHR fifth ..if you want to take another glance at SEA-TAC, look here, just under "airlines and destinations":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle%E2%...erminals.2C_airlines.2C_and_destinations

On a tangent, Seattle, with its large Scandinavian population, was served for years by SAS, which dropped it some time back, as people know. Nobody has jumped in to fill the gap. Could that have anything to do with SAS being Star Alliance? (tell 'em to come to YVR)!! Copenhagen from YVR is a potential but as yet unused route from YVR. Wonder if it might be profitable. And would it be a connecting hub, or mostly what, and for where, I wonder.

[Johnny Aussie]

I've said this a few times now, but IF YVR wasn't adding new routes, capacity increases etc BUT only Seattle was, then I would say hmmmm....but since YVR is adding so many new flights as well, both airports are on track for some decent growth. Troferhen every time you post you seem to neglect to notice all of YVR recent flight increases? You seem to think these SEA increases are coming at the expense of service losses to YVR?

Europe seems to be finally getting a bit more attention from YVR... LH upgauging its winter flight program, LH starting the seasonal MUC flight earlier next year, new Icelandair service, AC increasing LHR capacity due to the higher density 77W (450+ seats), stay tuned for more YVR - Europe flying in the not too distant future. All in all, not bad service increases being realised to Asia, Europe, South Pacific (Air NZ)!

[cyeg66]

^That sums it up. After relatively flat growth for the better part of a decade, I think YVR is doing quite well of late and seems to be picking up momentum. So trofirhen, you can take a breath now. YVR will forever be positioned as our Asia-Pacific-Oceania gateway, the world's greatest (and perpetually) growing air market. The future looks bright, gotta wear shades. (Ooh, sorry about that, fellas)

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I've said this a few times now, but IF YVR wasn't adding new routes, capacity increases etc BUT only Seattle was, then I would say hmmmm....but since YVR is adding so many new flights as well, both airports are on track for some decent growth. Troferhen every time you post you seem to neglect to notice all of YVR recent flight increases? You seem to think these SEA increases are coming at the expense of service losses to YVR?

Europe seems to be finally getting a bit more attention from YVR... LH upgauging its winter flight program, LH starting the seasonal MUC flight earlier next year, new Icelandair service, AC increasing LHR capacity due to the higher density 77W (450+ seats), stay tuned for more YVR - Europe flying in the not too distant future. All in all, not bad service increases being realised to Asia, Europe, South Pacific (Air NZ)!

Good news! I appreciate the feedback. My real concern was that if some airlines regarded Vancouver/Seattle as one regional PNW market, they'd choose Seattle over Vancouver, but that's not really happening, as you say.
I'm interested to see what'll come up for YVR over the next three years or so.

[Kapten]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I've said this a few times now, but IF YVR wasn't adding new routes, capacity increases etc BUT only Seattle was, then I would say hmmmm....but since YVR is adding so many new flights as well, both airports are on track for some decent growth. Troferhen every time you post you seem to neglect to notice all of YVR recent flight increases? You seem to think these SEA increases are coming at the expense of service losses to YVR?

Europe seems to be finally getting a bit more attention from YVR... LH upgauging its winter flight program, LH starting the seasonal MUC flight earlier next year, new Icelandair service, AC increasing LHR capacity due to the higher density 77W (450+ seats), stay tuned for more YVR - Europe flying in the not too distant future. All in all, not bad service increases being realised to Asia, Europe, South Pacific (Air NZ)!

Johnny do you know of other carriers negotiating to fly here from Europe in the near future?

[spaceprobe]

what needs to happen is for Westjet to make Vancouver a hub city and give more attention to Vancouver (and not just Calgary). That will serve the international markets the best. Don't know if that will happen, since Westjet remains very Alberta-centric .

[deasine]

Originally Posted by spaceprobe

what needs to happen is for Westjet to make Vancouver a hub city and give more attention to Vancouver (and not just Calgary). That will serve the international markets the best. Don't know if that will happen, since Westjet remains very Alberta-centric .

Agreed. And if this were the case, YVR will seem much more of a hub. At the end of the day, Westjet also has the power to pickup feed from all foreign carriers who don't belong to Star (or in other words, don't partner with AC) and in some ways, this is already the case.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by spaceprobe

what needs to happen is for Westjet to make Vancouver a hub city and give more attention to Vancouver (and not just Calgary). That will serve the international markets the best. Don't know if that will happen, since Westjet remains very Alberta-centric .

Rather an example of what you say is when AC pulled out of Vancouver-San Diego, which would seem a respectable market.
There is is still a WJ nonstop Calgary-San Diego, but Vancouver-San Diego (which I would have thought a larger market) lies unserved now.
I always thought it a little strange that WJ didn't pick up that route.

[cyeg66]

Well, if AC, with their greater YVR presence than WS, and equipped with E90's/A319's, couldn't make a go of SAN without competition of the route, then why would it make sense for WS with B736's and larger a/c? It may work for WS from YYC because of connecting traffic inbound from the East, and also the fact that YEG + YYC is almost equal to YVR in population (with greater disposable income, I'll add). No less than 7 flights per day from just YEG (you can add YMM, YQU, YXJ now, too) to YYC fill up connecting flights to points beyond. Lots o' feed. A lot of WS's YVR flights are predominantly O&D 'cause the city itself can sustain it, the only exception being the Hawaii flights.

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Rather an example of what you say is when AC pulled out of Vancouver-San Diego, which would seem a respectable market.
There is is still a WJ nonstop Calgary-San Diego, but Vancouver-San Diego (which I would have thought a larger market) lies unserved now.
I always thought it a little strange that WJ didn't pick up that route.

YVR is the largest Origin-Desitnation market from Canada to SAN, about twice the size of YYC-SAN, at least as of 2010 - the latest stats I could find and I doubt that much has changed in 2 years.

See the 2010 report here (city pairs start page 23) - http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/51-205-x/51-205-x2010000-eng.pdf

Westjet's YYC-SAN flight must be bolstered by PAX from YEG, YXE, YQR & YWG to make it work. Interestingly WS could not make YYC-SNA work, they cancelled it this past spring citing poor demand/performance, however they maintained their non-stop YVR-SNA service citing high demand (even with YVR's many LAX flights).

I'm sure YVR will get a non-stop flight to SAN again, the demand is there. As far as WS goes, I think YVR has their only year-round non-stop service to Hawaii (KOA,OGG, HON) and SNA.

[Gordon]

I womnder why YVR SAN doesn't work because Alaska tried it & could'nt make it work

I wonder if we will ever see YvR to Ontario

[casper]

Originally Posted by craneSpotter

I'm sure YVR will get a non-stop flight to SAN again, the demand is there. As far as WS goes, I think YVR has their only year-round non-stop service to Hawaii (KOA,OGG, HON) and SNA.

With 737 aircraft Vancouver and Victoria are the only Canadian cities that WestJet can operate flights to Hawaii with taking a large penalty.