The Great Canadian Transit Thread - Page 133

GlassCity · #**2641** Posted **Aug 27, 2013, 6:30 PM**

Alright, thanks guys.

The difference between rapid transit types isn't really all that important anyway. There are so many variations, and it really doesn't matter what it's called as long as it serves the city well.

Metro-One · #**2642** Posted **Aug 27, 2013, 6:32 PM**

Not metro if it still has at grade crossings which leave the potential for vehicle conflicts. I did not make that up, that is the true definition of a metro (fully grade separated). If not you have an LRT, a commuter rail, a streetcar, or a hybrid.

Chadillaccc · #**2643** Posted **Aug 27, 2013, 6:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Wikipedia is always a good start.

Anyways, the best way to differentiate systems is if they are fully grade separated or not.

Fully grade separated = metro, non fully grade separated = not metro.

Exactly! Even if the LRT system(s) have faster average speeds than some metros!

Having ridden every style of rapid transit in my life other than Meglev and bullet train, my favorite is Light Metro (ie. Skytrain). My second is subway/metro, and third is Light rail, with commuter rail coming in at a far fourth place

Nouvellecosse · #**2644** Posted **Aug 27, 2013, 6:38 PM**

Wow, what a fascinating discussion! I'm glad we've finally found some new and interesting territory to cover rather than just rehashing the same old tired themes.

logan5 · #**2645** Posted **Aug 27, 2013, 7:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Not metro if it still has at grade crossings which leave the potential for vehicle conflicts. I did not make that up, that is the true definition of a metro (fully grade separated). If not you have an LRT, a commuter rail, a streetcar, or a hybrid.

Parts of Chicago's "L" have at grade crossing, so I suppose it's not quite a true Metro.

Metro-One · #**2646** Posted **Aug 27, 2013, 7:22 PM**

That would be correct. Of course that would only affect the line in question, not the entire system.

eemy · #**2647** Posted **Aug 28, 2013, 12:18 AM**

And I suppose Ottawa's new system will be a metro as well, as would be the O-Train, though no one really thinks of it as such.

Metro-One · #**2648** Posted **Aug 28, 2013, 12:21 AM**

I believe the O-train has at grade crossings does it not? Also, it is not electric, it is diesel. Electrification (third rail or overhead) is the other required factor.

And yes, Ottawa's new line will be a true metro, that is, until they go ahead with the future planned at grade expansions.

Mrs Sauga · #**2649** Posted **Aug 28, 2013, 12:28 AM**

I thought Quebec Citys LRT was the real deal? They had quite a few videos created.

Would be nice if Quebec and Winnipeg could get something happening. If Kitchener can get LRT, then Quebec and Winnipeg should being that they are bigger cities.

Chadillaccc · #**2650** Posted **Aug 28, 2013, 12:59 AM**

Hamilton will be the first of the 750 000 pop. cities to get LRT. Winnipeg's mayor promised LRT, and then at the last moment completely reneged and built a 5 station BRT to nowhere unfortunately. However, once the second phase goes through (no one knows when) they will extend it all the way southwest to the University. Apparently it will be an easy conversion to LRT once they finally decide to build it. I don't know about the one in Quebec City, but I'm pretty sure there hasn't been any serious proposal in recent times. Once Kitchener's is up and running though, that may spur a lot of talk in mid-sized cities nation wide about getting rapid transit.

Doady · #**2651** Posted **Aug 28, 2013, 1:14 AM**

I don't see how Kitchener will inspire new rapid transit lines in other mid-sized cities when itself has no plans at all to build rapid transit.

Also, I think Mississauga will probably get LRT before Hamilton. Hamilton doesn't seem very committed to transit at all. Their transit ridership fell again in 2012.

Innsertnamehere · #**2652** Posted **Aug 28, 2013, 1:16 AM**

The O-Train has a passenger at grade crossing as well as an overlapping at grade rail crossing, but no vehicle crossings. Not metro.

Chadillaccc · #**2653** Posted **Aug 28, 2013, 1:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doady

I don't see how Kitchener will inspire new rapid transit lines in other mid-sized cities when itself has no plans at all to build rapid transit.

What are you talking about? The LRT line has already been approved for Kitchener and Waterloo, they have already selected the route, acquired most of the land, and have already revealed the rolling stock. Construction begins next year.

This is from two days ago: Light Rail Transit land purchases on track
link: http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-story/4046744-light-rail-transit-land-purchases-are-on-track/

This is from five days ago: Bombardier touts Waterloo LRT order
link: http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/light-rail/bombardier-touts-waterloo-lrt-order.html

This is from six days ago: Scrapping LRT plan could cost more than $140 million
link: http://www.therecord.com/news-story/4040...ransit-could-cost-more-than-140-million/

Kitchener will be our first metro under a million(currently) to have LRT. I wasn't mentioning Mississauga because it is part of a metropolitan area that already has rapid transit. To me, the one in Hamilton would be more exciting to see happen, but you're right that there's a good chance the Mississauga's will happen before Hamilton's.

Innsertnamehere · #**2654** Posted **Aug 28, 2013, 1:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Where do we draw the line though? Most of the Ctrain is grade-seperated with metro-speeds, metro-headways, and metro-style stations. But because it has at-grade crossings in certain sections(among other reasons), it is an LRT. The Eglington line will be grade-seperated for 2/3 of it's length, but completely at grade for the rest of it (13 of its 27 stations will be situated between at-grade crossings). I don't know about the exact routing of the Hamilton LRT but if it's anything like Kichener's, calling it a streetcar certainly would be close to the truth, as (I believe) no section of the KW lrt will have a reserved ROW.

Kitchener runs in a ROW, but large portions of Toronto's existing streetcar network does as well. (Spadina, St. Clair, Queens Quay) portions will run along an existing railway ROW allowing for large grade separated portions and higher speeds. Hamiltons LRT is essentially a streetcar with a ROW, much like some existing Toronto streetcars. No portions of either line run in mixed traffic from what I remember.

Also, how urgent is the 8th Avenue subway for Calgary? It always struck me as odd that the least metro-like portion of the system is the portion through the Downtown.. I almost like Edmontons system more because of this. it is smaller (because they had to spend so much more to build the tunnel) but the system seems to work so much better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doady

I don't see how Kitchener will inspire new rapid transit lines in other mid-sized cities when itself has no plans at all to build rapid transit.

Also, I think Mississauga will probably get LRT before Hamilton. Hamilton doesn't seem very committed to transit at all. Their transit ridership fell again in 2012.

The way things are looking, both will get it very close to each other. The current "breaking point" for both projects is whether the Liberals can pass a transit tax in their spring budget. If they succeed, both will get the go ahead (though likely Mississuaga first, though only be 3-4 years), If they fail, it is likely going to be a long time before either get funding.

Chadillaccc · #**2655** Posted **Aug 28, 2013, 1:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Also, how urgent is the 8th Avenue subway for Calgary? It always struck me as odd that the least metro-like portion of the system is the portion through the Downtown.. I almost like Edmontons system more because of this. it is smaller (because they had to spend so much more to build the tunnel) but the system seems to work so much better.

I'm curious if you've been on either system? Yes, I like Edmonton's a lot because it has the subway, but I certainly wouldn't say it works better, or worse. Apparently 2025 is the tentative date when they will start on the 8th Avenue Subway. In my opinion, we need it now, but as someone who uses the system twice a day or more, including the downtown portion, it works fine. Edmonton just thought ahead in a different way then Calgary did. Calgary saw the exponential growth of the city, so decided to spend money vastly expanding the system, while Edmonton saw the need to keep downtown streets for cars (or some other reason? I'm not certain.)

eemy · #**2656** Posted **Aug 28, 2013, 3:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

What are you talking about? The LRT line has already been approved for Kitchener and Waterloo, they have already selected the route, acquired most of the land, and have already revealed the rolling stock. Construction begins next year.

He's probably getting hung up on semantic nonsense about it not technically being rapid transit and totally missing the point.

Chadillaccc · #**2657** Posted **Aug 28, 2013, 11:55 AM**

Well that's lame. Whatever Quebec City, Winnipeg, and Hamilton build will most likely be more similar to what Kitchener will build than it will be to Calgary or Edmonton's systems.

kwoldtimer · #**2658** Posted **Aug 28, 2013, 1:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I'm sure it's pretty easy to find information about Kichener's, Hamilton's, and Mississauga's. I don't have any sources though.

The other ones would be harder to find info about, except for Vancouver's (hopefully) future streetcar system. I have seen a picture of the proposed routing for the Victoria, Halifax and Quebec City LRTs but they were probably just visions.

You can find more info about the K-W LRT (and aBRT to Cambridge) at this Region of Waterloo site: http://rapidtransit.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/index.asp

Chadillaccc · #**2659** Posted **Aug 28, 2013, 1:34 PM**

I read that the mayor of Cambridge is talking about cancelling Phase 2 of the LRT which will go from Fairview Park Mall in Kitchener to Ainsley Terminal in Cambridge. I think the BRT from Fairview to Ainsley is part of Phase 1 though, so that's good.

Chadillaccc · #**2660** Posted **Aug 28, 2013, 2:17 PM**

Interesting news out of Cochrane, a suburb of Calgary with an exploding population, currently at about 20 000+ people. Apparently the new public transit system will include double-decker busses for a select route between Cochrane and Calgary's Crowfoot and Tuscany Stations.

Council approves transit for 2014

Link: http://www.cochranetimes.com/2011/11/18/council-approves-transit-for-2014