Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[xd_1771]

That beautiful column O_O
Doesn't even take up half the left turn lane there.

I should wave this in the face of Surrey's councillors, who are somehow convinced that SkyTrain will split the community in half, yet it is LRT that will do that with its intrusive 2x+ ROW requirement.

[Zassk]

It was pretty shocking how fast the columns went up on Canada Line - even with the extra foundation work on the floodplain - and the guideway went up almost as quickly. This part of the Evergreen Line will be fun to watch. The underground parts will take much longer and progress will seem very slow.

Watching the North Road section going up, I agree that it seems like Surrey extensions could be built quickly and cheaply. You would think we could incrementally extend into Surrey by one station per year for several years, spending maybe $80-100m per year. The Broadway Line will be a major project, but a Surrey extension doesn't have to be.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Zassk

It was pretty shocking how fast the columns went up on Canada Line - even with the extra foundation work on the floodplain - and the guideway went up almost as quickly. This part of the Evergreen Line will be fun to watch. The underground parts will take much longer and progress will seem very slow.

Watching the North Road section going up, I agree that it seems like Surrey extensions could be built quickly and cheaply. You would think we could incrementally extend into Surrey by one station per year for several years, spending maybe $80-100m per year. The Broadway Line will be a major project, but a Surrey extension doesn't have to be.

Completely agree.

Fraser highway has enough space on the shoulder for pillars like these. You would barely need to close the roads. And most of the guideway would be over the sidewalk, you could have an amazing covered pedestrian environment like in Richmond (and Skytrain guidways are smaller than Canada Line).

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by Zassk

It was pretty shocking how fast the columns went up on Canada Line - even with the extra foundation work on the floodplain - and the guideway went up almost as quickly. This part of the Evergreen Line will be fun to watch. The underground parts will take much longer and progress will seem very slow.

Watching the North Road section going up, I agree that it seems like Surrey extensions could be built quickly and cheaply. You would think we could incrementally extend into Surrey by one station per year for several years, spending maybe $80-100m per year. The Broadway Line will be a major project, but a Surrey extension doesn't have to be.

The *REAL* fun begins when they start to connect the guideways to the Lougheed station. That is where it gets complicated given the existing structures and that notorious "hump". At the end of the day, seeing the guideways connect there gives the Evergreen Line the most visible connectivity to Skytrain. But it will be a while.

Your comments regarding Surrey is quite logical, and is why it should really go first. Its cheaper, and can be done fairly soon. Even if you start Broadway today, it will still take a long time for it to be done.

So putting Broadway ahead of Surrey would mean that improvements on the region as a whole would take much longer. Many years to finish Broadway, putting additional years of wait for Surrey. But if you start Surrey now, you will see improvements for the whole region much much quicker. Much quicker in an ROI point of view, imo.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

So putting Broadway ahead of Surrey would mean that improvements on the region as a whole would take much longer. Many years to finish Broadway, putting additional years of wait for Surrey. But if you start Surrey now, you will see improvements for the whole region much much quicker. Much quicker in an ROI point of view, imo.

I would go further and say that the two projects shouldn't have any bearing on each other. Surrey extensions could be seen as incremental expenditures that can be budgeted annually, almost like organic growth of the existing network. The Broadway line will surely be a megaproject built all at once, with major financial and political ramifications, similar to the Port Mann project. Putting down $3 billion for Broadway should not make or break a $100 million/year gradual expansion in Surrey, and vice versa.

Sorry for the OT.

[SFUVancouver]

I am of the opinion that both projects - South of the Fraser rapid transit & the UBC/Millennium Line Completion - should be packaged as a single contract with a fixed project specs, price, and end date. The larger dollar figure (compared to two separate projects) will attract greater international interest, which will likely lead to additional firms putting forward a bid on the projects. Let the bidders figure out the schedule of construction and opportunities for synergies and cost efficiency.

One big project with fixed project specs, price, and end date should help blunt the frustration that is felt by some South of the Fraser who feel that they aren't getting their fair share for their transportation dollars (setting aside the billions that have been spent on Hwy 1, new Port Mann, Roberts Bank rail corridor overpasses, Golden Ears Bridge, South Fraser Perimeter Road, and the planned Pattullo & Tunnel replacements).

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Thanks!

I guess the two grooves are a design element?
(as opposed to a slot for downspouts?)

or someone thinks they're saving money by not using as much concrete ...

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

That beautiful column O_O
Doesn't even take up half the left turn lane there.

I should wave this in the face of Surrey's councillors, who are somehow convinced that SkyTrain will split the community in half, yet it is LRT that will do that with its intrusive 2x+ ROW requirement.

They ARE designed to fit in the median between the traffic lanes.
Left-turn lanes count as traffic lanes too.

[hollywoodnorth]

thanks for the erection photos! man how I like to watch a good erection taking place in public!

[trofirhen]

Vancouver, as a city with a metro population a little above Stockholm (they're at 1.7 million. Comparing the two subway systems may seem an irrelevancy >> One that opened with its first line in 1950, the other (with smaller rolling stock) 36 years later.
But everything takes time, and despite Vancouver's relatively modest population size as "big cities" go, the Evergreen Line, extending through a tunnel and out to a forested suburb with clusters of highrises, (and while simultaneously factoring in other future Skytrain link-enhanced town centres,) is probabaly the closest thing to Stockhom in North America to date, for any mid-sized city.
The daily ridership on the Vancouver system (396,500 qu/4 2012: source Wikepedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyTrain_%28Vancouver%29
is already nearly half that of Stockholm:847,000, in a much older, much more extensive, and development-linked system than baby brother Vancouver..
check it out if you want
http://mic-ro.com/metro/metrocity.html?city=Stockholm
/But Hey. We aren't doing badly at all, and the Evergreen Line is pioneering a truly European style of metro transit here in North America. (Not to mention the daily ridership numbers that will climb when the line opens. Projecting into the future, this - and other potential line extensions - is, for North America, a rail transit concept that's going to set a benchmark even more than now. (within the overarching parameters of Vancouverism) Exciting stuff, rather.

[xd_1771]

you could have an amazing covered pedestrian environment like in Richmond (and Skytrain guidways are smaller than Canada Line).

I absolutely love the width of the sidewalk under the guideway in Richmond. With time and development, the width could help create activity spaces and become a really well-integrated part of the community.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Vancouver, as a city with a metro population a little above Stockholm (they're at 1.7 million. Comparing the two subway systems may seem an irrelevancy >> One that opened with its first line in 1950, the other (with smaller rolling stock) 36 years later.
But everything takes time, and despite Vancouver's relatively modest population size as "big cities" go, the Evergreen Line, extending through a tunnel and out to a forested suburb with clusters of highrises, (and while simultaneously factoring in other future Skytrain link-enhanced town centres,) is probabaly the closest thing to Stockhom in North America to date, for any mid-sized city.
The daily ridership on the Vancouver system (396,500 qu/4 2012: source Wikepedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyTrain_%28Vancouver%29
is already nearly half that of Stockholm:847,000, in a much older, much more extensive, and development-linked system than baby brother Vancouver..
check it out if you want
http://mic-ro.com/metro/metrocity.html?city=Stockholm
/But Hey. We aren't doing badly at all, and the Evergreen Line is pioneering a truly European style of metro transit here in North America. (Not to mention the daily ridership numbers that will climb when the line opens. Projecting into the future, this - and other potential line extensions - is, for North America, a rail transit concept that's going to set a benchmark even more than now. (within the overarching parameters of Vancouverism) Exciting stuff, rather.

I don't think its fair to compare the transportation system of Metro Vancouver to that of Stockholm. I've been to Stockholm and as a transit enthusiast, its like being a kid in a candy store...

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

I don't think its fair to compare the transportation system of Metro Vancouver to that of Stockholm. I've been to Stockholm and as a transit enthusiast, its like being a kid in a candy store...

Then Tokyo and New York was like a candy supermarket, next door to a Toys R Us, next door to an amusement park.

I could make local to express to local transfers all day long.

[xd_1771]

Here are a few screenshots copied over from SSC on the ongoing Kelana Jaya Line extension in Malaysia. I thought it'd be relevant since it's proceeding alongside Evergreen, and the differences in column/guideway construction are also quite interesting.... the Kelana Jaya extension columns seem to have a slimmer and more refined look compared to the first-generation (Expo Line) and second-generation (Millennium Line, and looks like Evergreen is proceeding the same way) guideway styles.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

I don't think its fair to compare the transportation system of Metro Vancouver to that of Stockholm. I've been to Stockholm and as a transit enthusiast, its like being a kid in a candy store...

I've been to Stockholm and ridden the metro there, too, and what you say is 100% right on. Perhaps I expressed myself unclearly. I said (using the Evergreen line going out to high-rise suburbs in the forest) that the line (factoring in all other aspects of the Skytrain, linking Brentwood and Metrotown to Vancouver etc etc etc) that Vancouver was, for its size, building the closest thing to Stockholm in North American city transit.

Sure, stockhom is a million times better, but it's a lot older, opening in 1950, and was using "Vancouverism" (of a sort) before we were, connecting centres like Vällingby, Skärholmen, you name it, right through the city centre and branching out all over.

We're just learning to walk in comparison, but out daily ridership on our incomplete system is ALREADY nearly half of theirs, and that ain't bad at all. Remember please we're talking statistical comarisons here.

Stockholm, as you say, is much more elaborate, and the city infinitely better served - yet interestingly, the city has only three official subway lines! How do they do it? By branching the lines out into branches and forks the further you get from downtown. Clever.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Then Tokyo and New York was like a candy supermarket, next door to a Toys R Us, next door to an amusement park.

I could make local to express to local transfers all day long.

Pffft...Tokyo or New York would be this!

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I've been to Stockholm and ridden the metro there, too, and what you say is 100% right on. Perhaps I expressed myself unclearly. I said (using the Evergreen line going out to high-rise suburbs in the forest) that the line (factoring in all other aspects of the Skytrain, linking Brentwood and Metrotown to Vancouver etc etc etc) that Vancouver was, for its size, building the closest thing to Stockholm in North American city transit.

Sure, stockhom is a million times better, but it's a lot older, opening in 1950, and was using "Vancouverism" (of a sort) before we were, connecting centres like Vällingby, Skärholmen, you name it, right through the city centre and branching out all over.

We're just learning to walk in comparison, but out daily ridership on our incomplete system is ALREADY nearly half of theirs, and that ain't bad at all. Remember please we're talking statistical comarisons here.

Stockholm, as you say, is much more elaborate, and the city infinitely better served - yet interestingly, the city has only three official subway lines! How do they do it? By branching the lines out into branches and forks the further you get from downtown. Clever.

Stockholm only has three official subway lines but its quite extensive and is complimented by a various host of other transit means from frequent buses, to surface LRTs and tramways, etc.

Even with Evergreen, Surrey RRT and Broadway built, there is still a huge percentage of the metro area that has no frequent, reliable transit, while pretty much every nook and cranny of Stockholm has easy access. So unless you see tramways or buses with downtown Vancouver like frequency in areas like Maple Ridge, Twassen or West Van, Metro Vancouver still is no where close to what Stockholm has.

You know what the secret of Stockholm is? Extremely high taxes that support such an extensive system, something our political leaders, even NDPers, are afraid off.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Here are a few screenshots copied over from SSC on the ongoing Kelana Jaya Line extension in Malaysia. I thought it'd be relevant since it's proceeding alongside Evergreen, and the differences in column/guideway construction are also quite interesting.... the Kelana Jaya extension columns seem to have a slimmer and more refined look compared to the first-generation (Expo Line) and second-generation (Millennium Line, and looks like Evergreen is proceeding the same way) guideway styles.

It looks very similar to the Millenium Line, just with a more square column.

Photo courtesy of Buzzerblog's Flickr

[hollywoodnorth]

the Mline photo you show there looks much better than the other

[queetz@home]

Interesting....


Vancouver The Most Livable City In North America: Economist

The report made particular note of Metro Vancouver's Evergreen Line project, noting that the new SkyTrain line through Burnaby, Coquitlam and Port Moody could have long-term benefit for residents, though it could be disruptive in the short term.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Interesting....


Vancouver The Most Livable City In North America: Economist

Even in mature cities like New York and Toyko their trains don't come anywhere nearly as often as the skytrain. When I tell people that they are always shocked.