Calgary Public Transit II

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

Much of the SETWAY line has been developed already (all of it, really since Seton is in full swing). There is the chance of some redevelopment happening, but seeing as how developer's are still sitting on the land around dozens of our existing LRT stations, the appetite for TOD redevelopment doesn't seem to be huge, and expecting massive redevelopment to occur in these areas because we have put the SETWAY in seems unreasonable to me.

You might be able to back date the tax program a bit on the grounds that the SETWAY was in the city plans and developers were already relying on it to some extent, but I think you’re addressing the key question. Given that places like Westbrook are still waiting to be developed, is there enough good development land available already? This is where the developers enter the equation again, imo. Westbrook and the SETWAY line may well attract different kinds of projects. The developers will know if the demand for the SETWAY is there, and if there is enough demand then in order to get the ball rolling on construction they need to kick in some money and make firm commitments to build their projects. With that in hand the city can then go to the public. As a member of the general public that would be enough to make me happy to have the city commit tax dollars to the project. In that scenario I can see the demand. I can see the commitment, and cash up front. I can see the alignment where the city and the developers are working towards the same end, a win-win project if you will. And I can see that it’s essentially set up as a user pay, or those who benefit most from it are paying for it. Yes, this later point may well be optics to a large extent, but as I said above I think it helps the general public see the connection between the money they’re spending and what they’re getting for it. It shows how the city is spending money to make money, iow, and not just frittering it away as Mr. Manning would have you believe.

[Stephen Ave]

Sorry if this question has been asked a bunch of times already, but doesn anyone know the target date for putting the LRT under 8th ave?

[Fuzz]

A question along those lines then... Why didn't IOL pick one of the areas near existing C-train lines for their Office? Were none large enough for what they wanted to do? Not cheap enough? It seams so dumb to build where there may be transit some time in the future...

Originally Posted by Allan83

You might be able to back date the tax program a bit on the grounds that the SETWAY was in the city plans and developers were already relying on it to some extent, but I think you’re addressing the key question. Given that places like Westbrook are still waiting to be developed, is there enough good development land available already? This is where the developers enter the equation again, imo. Westbrook and the SETWAY line may well attract different kinds of projects. The developers will know if the demand for the SETWAY is there, and if there is enough demand then in order to get the ball rolling on construction they need to kick in some money and make firm commitments to build their projects. With that in hand the city can then go to the public. As a member of the general public that would be enough to make me happy to have the city commit tax dollars to the project. In that scenario I can see the demand. I can see the commitment, and cash up front. I can see the alignment where the city and the developers are working towards the same end, a win-win project if you will. And I can see that it’s essentially set up as a user pay, or those who benefit most from it are paying for it. Yes, this later point may well be optics to a large extent, but as I said above I think it helps the general public see the connection between the money they’re spending and what they’re getting for it. It shows how the city is spending money to make money, iow, and not just frittering it away as Mr. Manning would have you believe.

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

A question along those lines then... Why didn't IOL pick one of the areas near existing C-train lines for their Office? Were none large enough for what they wanted to do? Not cheap enough? It seams so dumb to build where there may be transit some time in the future...

I’m sure others here know much more than I about IOL’s intentions than I do, but I’m guessing that they knew it was in the plans and are counting on it being built. I’ve also heard that that they’re planning on running a shuttle service for their employees, so maybe that’s the interim plan until it gets built.

[joe498]

Busing from Airport to Downtown: 57 mins
Busing from Auburn Bay to Downtown: 1h:10m

Thing that's crazy to think about though is:

The airport to downtown is 17.2km.
South Health Campus to downtown is 24.6km.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Originally Posted by joe498

Busing from Airport to Downtown: 57 mins
Busing from Auburn Bay to Downtown: 1h:10m

Thing that's crazy to think about though is:

The airport to downtown is 17.2km.
South Health Campus to downtown is 24.6km.

I don't understand this post.

The 300 takes about 30 minutes to get downtown from YYC. And wouldn't you expect a longer trip to take longer? What's "crazy" exactly?

[joe498]

Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick

I don't understand this post.

The 300 takes about 30 minutes to get downtown from YYC. And wouldn't you expect a longer trip to take longer? What's "crazy" exactly?

The need for an lrt to the airport is crucial. Considering the future generation doesn't drive, all the less need for airport parking. And despite a bus being okay for most people, considering the higher class clientele that Calgary hosts, I think most would take a train but not a bus but instead settle for a limo / cab.

Leaving at 8:00am:

Calgary Downtown Association
304 8 Avenue Southwest #720
Calgary, AB T2P 1C2
Walk to EB 9 Av SW@ 2 St SW
About 2 mins (210 m)
EB 9 Av SW@ 2 St SW Stop ID: 3883
300
Bus towards South
8:12am - 8:54am (42 mins, 13 stops)
WB Airport Rd@ Barlow TR NE Stop ID: 3723
Walk to Calgary International Airport
About 8 mins (700 m)

Calgary International Airport
2000 Airport Rd NE
Calgary, AB T2E 6Z8
Travel time: about 53 mins

I do find it puzzling that busing from the deep south is nearly as quick as busing from downtown to the airport.

[frinkprof]

News Roundup

Calgary Transit planning ‘complete restyling’ of its website

Calgary Transit is looking to give its website a complete overhaul, making information more easily accessible on mobile devices and updating the overall look and feel of its online presence.

The redesign “will require a complete visual restyling, functional enhancements and the addition of new web technologies and capabilities,” according to a request for proposals the city recently posted.

Transit spokesperson Stephen Tauro said Monday the goal is create “a simple site where information is up-to-date, reliable and a little bit more 2013.”

[...]

http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/771102/calgary-transit-planning-complete-restyling-of-its-website/

Calgary Transit director will clean up vomit during Undercover Boss Canada episode

Cleaning vomit off a bus, working in fume-filled garages and helping calm customer tensions along the LRT line was all in a week’s work for one of Calgary Transit’s top officials this past spring.

It was revealed Monday that transit director Doug Morgan will star in an episode of Undercover Boss Canada Oct. 31.

For 10 days of filming in May, Morgan shed his “trademark” goatee and donned a disguise that fooled the handful of employees he toiled away with during graveyard maintenance and security shifts.

[...]

http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/770854/...t-during-undercover-boss-canada-episode/

New Chinook LRT station to open in ‘early September,’ Calgary Transit clarifies

After nearly eight months of reconstruction, the Chinook LRT station will open in “early September” but not necessarily on Sept. 2, as previously indicated on social media, Calgary Transit clarified Wednesday.

“We’re working on the exact opening date and we’ll release that later this week or early next week,” project engineer Chris Knobel told Metro. “It’s safe to say it’ll be early September.”

Knobel said “it was a mistake” when a tweet was sent out late Tuesday from Calgary Transit’s official Twitter account, saying the much-anticipated station re-opening would happen Sept. 2 at noon.

[...]

http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/773599/...rly-september-calgary-transit-clarifies/

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by joe498

The need for an lrt to the airport is crucial. Considering the future generation doesn't drive, all the less need for airport parking.

The schedule on CT shows about 30-35 minutes; depending on what stop you use downtown.

I'm sorry, but I don't see a huge value in having LRT to the airport. Contrary to what you say; I don't think we have a generation coming up that doesn't drive. And unless you live on the LRT line you would be looking at a transfer somewhere.

So for people who live close- it would be a short taxi ride or easier to get a friend to drive. For people who live further away, you are looking at a few transfers.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by joe498

The need for an lrt to the airport is crucial. Considering the future generation doesn't drive, all the less need for airport parking. And despite a bus being okay for most people, considering the higher class clientele that Calgary hosts, I think most would take a train but not a bus but instead settle for a limo / cab.

Leaving at 8:00am:

Calgary Downtown Association
304 8 Avenue Southwest #720
Calgary, AB T2P 1C2
Walk to EB 9 Av SW@ 2 St SW
About 2 mins (210 m)
EB 9 Av SW@ 2 St SW Stop ID: 3883
300
Bus towards South
8:12am - 8:54am (42 mins, 13 stops)
WB Airport Rd@ Barlow TR NE Stop ID: 3723
Walk to Calgary International Airport
About 8 mins (700 m)

Calgary International Airport
2000 Airport Rd NE
Calgary, AB T2E 6Z8
Travel time: about 53 mins

I do find it puzzling that busing from the deep south is nearly as quick as busing from downtown to the airport.

That's like saying "it takes 2 hours by transit to get from Skyview Ranch to Evergreen, therefore a direct train between the two is crucially needed."

It's a numbers game and the airport is not yet a big enough transit trip generator, and a route to and from it would service too few other high-ridership activity centers or redevelopment opportunities along the way to justify the significant cost of building a train to it when compared to other routes when faced with finite funding.

It's not wrong to say "people would take the train to and from the airport." It's a question of how many compared to the cost of building it compared to other projects at this time.

[MalcolmTucker]

In Vancouver the airport authority put $300 million into the airport spur of the Canada Line for daily ridership of: 13,460 YVR, 1,173 Sea Island and 4,427 at Templeton, which includes the free fare travel between the stations. Templeton's main draw is the YVR employee lot, as is Sea Island. So 8000 trips a day? For 46,575 passengers and 26,000+ airport workers. A good 8.1% modal share.

When the airport wants to step up to build a connecting service to Nose Creek, Centre St, and the 96th Ave NE station I'd be fine with a public cost share. But five kilometers of track and continual interlining to connect the LRT on the public dime? Nah.

FYI, the LRT takes 24 minutes to get from Saddletown to Centre Street. The bus would be competitive except in exceptional circumstances, especially since if demand warrants it we could run the bus more frequently than the LRT to the airport which at best we could run every 12 minutes (more likely every 18 or 24) without the Stephen Ave Subway being built prior.

[fusili]

Airport transit isn't as much about travelers as it is about Airport employees. The airport employs a lot of people, and providing transit to it is necessary just from a job concentration perspective. Providing transit to passengers is just an added benefit.

[Habanero]

Originally Posted by Stephen Ave

Sorry if this question has been asked a bunch of times already, but doesn anyone know the target date for putting the LRT under 8th ave?

2025 is the date that I've heard.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by fusili

Airport transit isn't as much about travelers as it is about Airport employees. The airport employs a lot of people, and providing transit to it is necessary just from a job concentration perspective. Providing transit to passengers is just an added benefit.

I think that there are two very different markets; employees and travellers.

A service that works well for employees would:

• Connect to places where airport workers live (north central and north east -- i.e. Saddle Towne and one or both of North Pointe and 78th Ave Terminale)
• Run frequently during peak work hours, including early in the morning
• Has a low cost

A service that works well for travellers, on the other hand:

• Connects to places where visitors want to go (downtown)
• Provides a fairly competitive travel time to taxis
• Has capacity for luggage
• Runs frequently all day
• Is legible; the station is easy to find and the route(s) are easy to understand
• Is highly reliable and has travel time information (e.g. real time tracking at downtown stops)
• Has a fare that is easy to purchase (multiple forms of currency and media); low cost is secondary since the competition is $40 but receipts are important
• Supports multiple languages
• Is a clean, pleasant ride

One of these is a lot easier than the other! Right now, the focus is on the employee market, which is a lot easier to serve. The 300 handles some of the issues of the visitor market (e.g. luggage capacity) but not others (e.g. it is buried in the bowels of the terminal in a hard-to-find location). I think a modest investment could improve the service to make it more competitive for visitors - move the 300 bus stop to a more attractive curbside stop, improve signage inside the terminal, add a ticket machine that supports credit and debit cards and multiple languages; add real-time tracking at the stations downtown. Here's a basic improvement with Boston's BRT service to the airport, for example. I don't think that the airport authority is particularly supportive of providing a cheaper alternative to their parking and taxi options, and the taxi drivers won't be happy either -- meanwhile, the main group that benefits doesn't even live here.

It is a long time (if ever) before LRT service to the airport would be appropriate based on the demand and capacity, given financial restrictions. I suspect a people mover type system could be constructed for a lower cost than the LRT and would provide a similar experience.

[Surrealplaces]

Westbrook LRT Station by Surrealplaces, on Flickr


Westbrook LRT Station by Surrealplaces, on Flickr

[Cage]

From a public transit market segmentation perspective, the employee and traveller groups must be disagregated. Something Like:
- Employees based in the terminal,
- Employees based outside the terminal area.
- Employees on shift work
- Employees on regular hours work schedule.
- Origin (e.g. based in Calgary) based frequent travellers who live in the transit area,
- Origin (e.g. based in Calgary) based infrequent travellers who live in the transit area,
- Origin (e.g. based in Calgary) based travellers who do not live in the transit area.
- Destination based travellers who frequently travel to Calgary and whose ultimate destination is within the transit area.
- Destination based travellers who do not frequently travel to Calgary and or whose ultimate destination is outside the transit area.

[joe498]

So here is a question, Strathcona County just purchased Double Decker Buses.

They are the first to do so in Alberta.

In Calgary, we have a few "Bendy Buses".

Which is cheapest? Which is more effective?

"Bendy Buses" take up more road space.

[frinkprof]

^Double deckers have issues with +15s and some underpasses/interchanges.

Both were tested in Calgary almost 10 years ago.

[MalcolmTucker]

Double deckers have longer dwell times at stops. But for long distance they work well. 4 were ordered by Cochrane with GreenTrip money. $6.1 million for the buses, 4 community shuttles, a terminal (pulse point and I think maybe some parking), and a maintenance building. I believe the intent is to run a circuit to Crowfoot LRT.

[YYCguys]

Didn't they scrap that idea due to more public consultation required? Or are they back on track?