I-5 Bridge Replacement - Formerly Columbia River Crossing | Proposed

[eric cantona]

very interesting and relevant article:

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-an...ects-end-costing-way-more-expected/6364/

I find it extremely unlikely that ODOT/WDOT are not aware of research like this. any estimates on what the REAL cost of the CRC would have been had it gone forward?

[zilfondel]

CRC is baaaaack!

The Zombridge: http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-20906-zombridge_.html

Now it will only cost $2.75 billion - with light rail! http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-30546-crc_coalition_backs_a_revised_%24275_billion_project.html

I much prefer the 'sensible alternative' that was posted to BP awhile ago: http://bikeportland.org/2011/04/27/video-explains-common-sense-alternative-to-crc-project-52147

[2oh1]

It's the project that wants to drink our economy's blood. I cannot emphasize my opposition to it strongly enough. I too support the so-called "sensible alternative," but I realize it's easier to get a mammoth sum of money for one project rather than significantly less money for various projects to be built over time.

[zilfondel]

I read this rather intriguing idea for handling congestion on the area's highways to the CRC from a poster on the olive boards. I'm not sure if his claims are true or not, but it is rather unorthodox to warrant some consideration and reposting on this board - it could basically act as a congestion charge like London has in place, and may drive people to use mass transit instead of driving:

Originally Posted by anandakos

There is a very simple solution to this seemingly everlasting problem. Oregon can do it unilaterally and for a relatively tiny expenditure.

That solution is to legislate southbound HOV lanes beginning mid-span at the Oregon-Washington state line, enforce it with frequent cameras beginning immediately south of the start of the lane, and levy a relatively high fine for violation of it.

Starting the lanes mid-bridge would force any lane-merge congestion back into Clark County where there is ample highway capacity to absorb it. It would eliminate the significant current "leakage" from the freeway at Marine Drive and Delta Park which would certainly have gotten far worse had the ten-lane bridge been built.

Oregon could share the violation revenue with C-Tran in order to increase the express service to Portland, helping to meet the goals of persons carried per hour that justify an HOV lane. Perhaps there would be sufficient revenue to enable C-Tran to serve destinations other than downtown and the Lloyd district with the expresses.

If such an HOV lane does not reduce demand sufficiently, there is a perfectly legal way for Oregon to increase the disincentives for people to live in Clark County and work in Oregon. Multnomah County could toll the Sunset, Burnside, Cornell, Germantown, Cornelius Pass, Canyon Road, Scholls Ferry, Beaverton-Hillsdale, Vermont, Taylors Ferry, and SR99W at the county line eastbound in the PM peak. Sell anyone who can prove residence in Washington and Multnomah counties a yearly pass for $100 and otherwise make the toll $3/trip, essentially for Washingtonians and tourists.

Oregon can't toll the Interstates for demand management, but 26 West isn't an Interstate nor is SR99W. This would essentially cordon off the tech corridor from Clark County commuters without requiring tolls on the Interstate Bridges or the Glenn Jackson. The express buses from Clark County do a good job of serving the downtown area, and perhaps there would be interest in vanpooling to tech corridor employers. Otherwise, people could pay the $800 per year it would cost.

Together these would be demand controls significant to moot the need for any bridge expansion.

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index...consider_scaled_down.html#incart_m-rpt-2

[dubu]

i think they should have a bus only lane on the freeway if they build this big bridge instead of light rail

[davehogan]

zilfondel: I think they'd need to return any federal money spent regardless if it's a US route, Interstate, or state route. I'm pretty sure they've taken them for several of those roads already.

Beyond that, there's a much simpler option. Make the gas tax a % of the cost of gas. It's already a sales tax, why not make that work for us?

[dubu]

http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/aug/13/letter-new-direction-needed-crc/

How about extending light rail from the Portland airport (someday) to Clark County via I-205 and building a higher river clearance bridge for I-5 to accommodate existing upstream businesses, river traffic and vehicles?

i like this part, but 10 to 12 lanes

One with 10 to 12 lanes so we aren't having this conversation again in 2025.

[tworivers]

Patricia McCaig should be imprisoned.

Oregon Treasurer Ted Wheeler Calls Columbia River Crossing's September Deadline into Question

Oregon State Treasurer Ted Wheeler is calling into question the ambitious September-or-bust timeline given by backers trying to sustain the ailing Columbia River Crossing.

In a terse letter (PDF) sent today to Gov. John Kitzhaber's top adviser on the project, Patricia McCaig, Wheeler says CRC staff are "going to have to make a great leap forward in a short period of time to provide legally adequate and reliable information to the Treasury and the people of Oregon."

...

WW story here.

[urbanlife]

Seeing the traffic on I-5 to Washington over the couple weeks I was back, I would be begging for any real improvement and alternatives if I were a Washingtonian that made that commute to Oregon each day. That is some seriously bad traffic to have to sit in day in and day out. But then again, they are from Washington so I don't feel that bad for them.

[cab]

Its their choice. I'm not sure what responsibility we have to those making poor commute choices? Now the fact that they are also limiting freight movement is a larger problem, but the solution isn't to try and give them enough room to continue to make poor choices. Freight only lane would be the best solution, even if we take away a lane from them.

[bvpcvm]

Originally Posted by cab

Its their choice. I'm not sure what responsibility we have to those making poor commute choices? Now the fact that they are also limiting freight movement is a larger problem, but the solution isn't to try and give them enough room to continue to make poor choices. Freight only lane would be the best solution, even if we take away a lane from them.

but it's not just vancouverites that suffer. for one thing, all that traffic sitting and idling impacts the health and mobility of people in N Portland as well.

and not just N Portland. take me, for example. i live in NW, commute to Tigard. yes, in theory i could take the bus, but given the transfers involved, the difference is either 1) drive 12 minutes in the morning or 2) get up earlier and sit on the bus for 90 minutes. i'll take 12 minutes, thank you. the problem is that in the afternoon, all that traffic backs up from the bridge all the way south through portland, past downtown - today all the way to capitol hwy. not everyone sitting on that freeway lives in vancouver, even though the bottleneck is at the crossing. i do agree that the crc was not the right solution. and i know there are other bottlenecks as well, around broadway, for example. AND i also understand that adding more lanes will only work until they (quickly) fill up with more traffic again. my point is just that portlanders are negatively affected by all this too.

[bvpcvm]

here's my preferred solution, which will never happen:

1) reinforce the interstate bridge
2) build a local access bridge to jantzen beach
3) — vancouver, extend the crime train across the river anyway
4) give me my crime train to tigard (actually, the SW corridor goes right by my office, i'd definitely take it), but forbid any value engineering - make it fast <-- this is the part that will certainly never happen

[cab]

bvpcvm, fix the clark county employment problem before subsidizing the problem by spending 4 billion on a non-solution. The issue is simple, business friendly perceived low tax clark county has not performed economically to provide jobs and has to — on the teat of socialist Oregon to survive. There is no solution for the traffic. The best we can do is limit the damage. Use the 4 billion to cap 1-5, build a freight only bridge and tax the hell out of the crossings.

[dubu]

wouldnt a tube in the watter be better for a train instead of a bridge that would fall in a earthquake?

[bvpcvm]

Originally Posted by dabom

wouldnt a tube in the watter be better for a train instead of a bridge that would fall in a earthquake?

sure, just triple or quadruple the price

[2oh1]

Originally Posted by bvpcvm

sure, just triple or quadruple the price

Not if we hire Bugs Bunny to dig it for us. That dude's always taking a wrong turn at Albuquerque. He's bound to show up here at some point, and he seems to know how to dig FAST. We'll pay him in carrots. How much could that possibly cost? PROBLEM SOLVED.

Ooh! I have an another idea. How about this: What if we have a fleet of monster helicopters to fly everybody over the river. Then, we wouldn't even need the bridge we already have. Awesome idea, right? I know! I'm amazed nobody else thought of it yet. Ooh, or what about a giant slingshot! What if we fling everybody over the river? That'd work! We'll just build a giant and super-soft catcher's mitt on the other side.

[dubu]

how about everyone in vancouver buy a electric long board or electric bike and ride it across the bridge

[bvpcvm]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

Ooh! I have an another idea. How about this: What if we have a fleet of monster helicopters to fly everybody over the river. Then, we wouldn't even need the bridge we already have. Awesome idea, right? I know! I'm amazed nobody else thought of it yet. Ooh, or what about a giant slingshot! What if we fling everybody over the river? That'd work! We'll just build a giant and super-soft catcher's mitt on the other side.

No, no, no, these are terrible ideas! Can you imagine the bottleneck at the helipad, or slingshot terminal?? We're right back where we started! And besides, if I can't drive, forget it! You're NOT slinging my f-350 anywhere, especially now that I managed to jack it up another foot. Nosiree, no socialist slingshotting for me or my fellow REAL MURICANS.

[2oh1]

Originally Posted by bvpcvm

No, no, no, these are terrible ideas!

What do you know about ideas? I see that you completely ignored my comment about hiring Bugs Bunny to dig the tube for us. Oh, how very convenient the way you totally skipped over that - perhaps because you know I'm right. Once Bugs gets here and starts digging, then we'll see which one of us is the smart guy. We'll have to find somebody to grow the carrots to pay him with, but still... that'll be easy.

When Bugs starts digging, all I ask is that you admit you were wrong. We'll show cities like Boston and Seattle that digging isn't astronomically expensive. And do you know why? BECAUSE I'M A SUPER GENIUS. That's why.

All we have to figure out is how wide a tunnel we want and how many carrots we need to grow. Problem solved.

I wonder if Bugs has any friends who can build us that monorail...

P.S. If you jacked your F-350 up another foot, it'll be perfect even if the landing is a little rough. That's assuming Bugs never gets here and we have to opt for the slingshot concept, I mean.

[dubu]

have a car boat rental by the river