HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #641  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2013, 10:10 PM
Dr Nevergold Dr Nevergold is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 19,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeweed View Post
And that ain't what the majority of Canadians do.

Witnessing the difference between the crowd in a Krispy Kreme (or hell, Dunkin's) and Tim's is.. enlightening.
LOL I think the idea that the clientele in Tim Hortons has better people than various US coffee shops to be a bit hilarious. Why don't we compare Timmies to Starbucks? I think that one trumps Timmies by far. We're talking about business' clientele, not something that an tell you a great deal about an entire nation.

This is one of the most silly, pretentious, utterly hilarious statements I've heard in a while. I *love* Canada, but I would never make such silly statements.

Last edited by Dr Nevergold; Aug 20, 2013 at 10:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #642  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2013, 12:33 AM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 26,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon716 View Post
I would assume Alberta is the most corrupt province. Tons of oil industry related cash, lots of back room deals, government under single party control for many decades. Just because its under the table and out of sight doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
No, it's Quebec.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #643  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2013, 12:48 AM
niwell's Avatar
niwell niwell is offline
sick transit, gloria
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Roncesvalles, Toronto
Posts: 11,655
Large industries with multiple levels of approval (environmental and otherwise) at the Provincial and higher level don't really lend themselves to corruption, or at least in Canada. They have enough lobbying power anyways so it wouldn't be worth it.

The smaller the government and the more likely a project is likely to fly under the radar, the more corruption is likely to go unnoticed. Think construction projects in small towns.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #644  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2013, 12:52 AM
vid's Avatar
vid vid is offline
I am a typical
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 39,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon716 View Post
Contrary to what you may believe, donuts are delicious and they usually contain more than 150 calories when you eat 2-3 of them and the nearly 1000 calories in a sweetened sugary iced drink is even worse.
I don't think people are eating a quarter dozen donuts and an extra large Iced Capp every single day, though.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #645  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2013, 1:26 AM
Dr Nevergold Dr Nevergold is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 19,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
No, it's Quebec.
Who says? Is there any reliable source of information that documents all corruption and ranks it according to science? Seems unlikely to me.

I referenced Alberta probably because of one single event: its had the longest running single party political state in the history of provincial politics that I'm aware of. I don't care what political party is in charge, if you have power for that long you have the power to push anything under the rug and never have anyone question or account for it.

Maybe not, but it seems like there's room for massive corruption. No political party has power that long without having serious baggage, even if well hidden.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #646  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2013, 2:28 AM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 12,901
I think ontario had the PCs in power for something like 45 years, back when progressive was actually meaningful in their name.

Edit: 42 years, 1943-1985. So ontario is tied with Alberta currently.

Last edited by Innsertnamehere; Aug 21, 2013 at 2:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #647  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2013, 1:45 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SSP Graveyard
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon716 View Post
Who says? Is there any reliable source of information that documents all corruption and ranks it according to science? Seems unlikely to me.

I referenced Alberta probably because of one single event: its had the longest running single party political state in the history of provincial politics that I'm aware of. I don't care what political party is in charge, if you have power for that long you have the power to push anything under the rug and never have anyone question or account for it.

Maybe not, but it seems like there's room for massive corruption. No political party has power that long without having serious baggage, even if well hidden.
It is highly possible that what you describe in Alberta (and also other provinces, even those not dominated by a single party) has led to a high level of corruption that is equal to or superior to that found in Quebec.

But the reality is that in Quebec that these things have really been brought to light.

It could be that Quebec really is worse than the others, or that it might just be the first to go through this and others will eventually follow.

It could also be (and this is a a real possibility) that Quebec has much better investigative reporters and a media culture that is very "on top of things" locally, and has much much less "distractions" and filler content from the States with stuff like Trayvon Martin, Oklahoma tornadoes, etc.

Also Quebec seems to have inherited from France a tendency to wash its dirty laundry in public and debate "societal" issues ad nauseum as opposed to the rest of the country which is more about keeping up appearances which leads to the unpleasant stuff often being swept under the carpet.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #648  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2013, 3:38 PM
Dr Nevergold Dr Nevergold is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 19,889
^One thing that is absolutely true is that corruption that is under the table, not open for discussion, and out of sight is no different from corruption that is open to the public.

The difference is public perception.

I'm more in tune with Ontario politics than Quebec, but the provincial gov't in Ontario is facing its own issues with the power plant cancelation. It was obviously McGuinty's largest goof up in office, and I think its more incompetence than corruption.

In Ontario's case, you've got a pot calling the kettle black. The Ontario PC was calling over and over and over for the Oakville gas plant to be cancelled, and as such cancellation would have cost the same no matter what government had power.

Although I don't think the cancellation is corruption as much as its just incompetence. Then you have the two other "scandals" that have plagued the province in ORNGE and eHealth. Although I think the ORNGE scandal was just the fact that it had bad management and not direct government corruption, and eHealth is the program that had the most questionable contracts laid out.

The bottom line is that all of the dirty laundry has been aired, is public knowledge. It doesn't mean one province is more corrupt than the other.

Personally I find the Liberal problems over the past decade to be small compared to the massive Harris era screwups. I don't agree with the mishandling of gas plants, but its hard for me to view Hudak and do anything but laugh when his government is the first voice to call for Oakville gas hydro production to be cancelled, just to have him do a 180 and say the opposite now. LOL
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #649  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2013, 3:49 PM
Migs Migs is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Regina, Sk, Canada
Posts: 3,774
So where is the video that many used to "convict" Ford even without seeing? Wouldn't surprise me at all if he comes out of this looking like the victim & winning the next election.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #650  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2013, 3:56 PM
niwell's Avatar
niwell niwell is offline
sick transit, gloria
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Roncesvalles, Toronto
Posts: 11,655
By many accounts several Toronto lawyers have seen, or are in possession of the video in relation to the project traveller raid. Prematurely releasing it would presumably be a breach of client confidentiality at this point so I would give it time.

http://warrenkinsella.com/2013/08/the-rob-ford-crack-video-the-truth/

Police are investigating the involvement of friends to the Ford family and there are multiple rumours of obstruction charges or other being considered. It's interesting to note that in recent articles the Star has dropped the term "alleged" when referring to the scandal. They would not do that unless they are willing to back things up in a court of law.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #651  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2013, 4:53 PM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 12,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon716 View Post
^One thing that is absolutely true is that corruption that is under the table, not open for discussion, and out of sight is no different from corruption that is open to the public.

The difference is public perception.

I'm more in tune with Ontario politics than Quebec, but the provincial gov't in Ontario is facing its own issues with the power plant cancelation. It was obviously McGuinty's largest goof up in office, and I think its more incompetence than corruption.

In Ontario's case, you've got a pot calling the kettle black. The Ontario PC was calling over and over and over for the Oakville gas plant to be cancelled, and as such cancellation would have cost the same no matter what government had power.

Although I don't think the cancellation is corruption as much as its just incompetence. Then you have the two other "scandals" that have plagued the province in ORNGE and eHealth. Although I think the ORNGE scandal was just the fact that it had bad management and not direct government corruption, and eHealth is the program that had the most questionable contracts laid out.

The bottom line is that all of the dirty laundry has been aired, is public knowledge. It doesn't mean one province is more corrupt than the other.

Personally I find the Liberal problems over the past decade to be small compared to the massive Harris era screwups. I don't agree with the mishandling of gas plants, but its hard for me to view Hudak and do anything but laugh when his government is the first voice to call for Oakville gas hydro production to be cancelled, just to have him do a 180 and say the opposite now. LOL
someone is crazy if they think the gas plants count as "corruption". how did the cancellation personally benefit any government figure? it was simply a response to the overwhelming opposition to the plants. Mind you some of the post-cancellation happenings could be argued to be corrupt, though even that was largely just going LALALALALALA and not listening to other people telling them the price of the cancellation, and sticking to their ridiculously low number.

completely agree with you on Hudak, (as does a large portion of the province, I think) and how Harris was much worse for the province than McGuinty. I still shudder about Highway downloads, cancelled subways, shuttered hospitals, etc.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #652  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2013, 10:21 PM
Dr Nevergold Dr Nevergold is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 19,889
^It still doesn't side step that McGuinty - while he did bring Ontario back into sound policy of expanding health services, helping teachers and students tremendously before the budget issues, and with big thinking, he did make a mistake by not just sticking to his — and going through with Oakville's gas generation plant. It may have been unpopular, but it would have been better to have proceeded with that. It would have avoided the mess right now of the fallout.

But I look at it through a different lens: no matter how big of a misstep we believe or don't believe it is, I give the OLP big credit for thinking big.

e.g. huge investments into renewables and wind energy over the past decade, even though eHealth didn't work out as planned an IT infrastructure did get created for medical records and other things. He implemented the GST even though it was controversial, which does help attract business and unify the taxes to make it simpler for the headache that people go through filing it. And whether or not people disagree with the exemptions that were taken away (like the extra tax on fuel) it did save Ontarians by avoiding double taxation.

McGuinty was faced with the worst possible scenario in the past decade: a total destruction of the manufacturing sector due to worldwide economic pressure outside of local control, and the 2008 worldwide economic disaster. So given the circumstances I'm not entirely sure how anyone can yap so strongly at the budget.

They've been pragmatic: over the past decade teachers got serious pay increases when they could afford it, now that the budget is tight they've tried to clamp down on over-expenditures.

You can't always have your cake and eat it too, I think overall McGuinty's missteps are small on a scale of large successes.

Transit is just one issue where the OLP was a partner with Toronto, now if the city of Toronto would just clean up its act and get behind a solid transit plan that's another story.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #653  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 5:31 PM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
Touching grass everyday.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Otisburgh
Posts: 51,751
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #654  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 5:37 PM
kool maudit's Avatar
kool maudit kool maudit is offline
video et taceo
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 14,345
quebec is like france in that there is no social pressure to generally approve of the society or its institutions. in french, you gripe about things. a lot. parisians have elevated this to a very fine art in which you live exquisitely but never outwardly appear to be particularly happy at all.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #655  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 6:16 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
From today's Toronto Sun:



This guy is really like a fictional character come to life. It's hard to believe he does the things he does.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #656  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 6:20 PM
MrOilers MrOilers is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,498
How can make that picture bigger?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #657  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 6:23 PM
Tony's Avatar
Tony Tony is offline
Super Moderator / Sr. Committee
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 5,998

source: Ford image by Michelle Siu/Canadian Press/ Hogan Canadian Press handout
CBC http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/st...ord-hulk-hogan-fan-expo-arm-wrestle.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #658  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 6:24 PM
Architype's Avatar
Architype Architype is offline
♒︎ verified human
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 🍁 Canada
Posts: 14,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
How can make that picture bigger?
So that's a fat smurfy like creature, with a yellow monkey on his shoulders.

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #659  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 6:30 PM
Tony's Avatar
Tony Tony is offline
Super Moderator / Sr. Committee
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 5,998

fordmolson by SSP Tony, on Flickr
source: Ford image by Michelle Siu
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #660  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2013, 7:01 PM
Rico Rommheim's Avatar
Rico Rommheim Rico Rommheim is offline
Look at me!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: City of Bagels
Posts: 13,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
From today's Toronto Sun:



This guy is really like a fictional character come to life. It's hard to believe he does the things he does.
Rob Ford is perfect. Here you have a buffoonish conservative persona, with an american sounding name and look, and an overt love for football and a propensity to look like a sitcom character. This has ironically given "Canada's city" everything it ever wanted: to be noticed by and amalgamated in the American pop culture industry.

Rob Ford is essentially, very useful in this respect. Here's a man who has sacrificed every shred of dignity in order to give a very special gift to the city he loves (or does he?).
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:46 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.