General Update/Rumour thread [Urban Ottawa]

[OTSkyline]

The vieux port development seems like a good idea but I don't think it is. First of all, it should've been on the Ottawa River with more visibility and better location etc... Not on the Gatineau River in the "outskirts" of the town.

Also, I think 12 condo towers for this particular location and such is a bit of an overkill no? Like I said, if it would've been at the Ottawa River next to the Jacques Cartier Park and the Port de Plaisance Jacques Quartier then it would've been a gem but now? Nope..

Unfortunately I think it willl be a flop just like the Place des Gouverneurs development at Cyrville and the Petrie Island development in Orleans. You just can't build a 5-10 tower complex in the suburbs, it doesn't work...

[McC]

the "Jacques Quartier" is such a brilliant typo!

[J.OT13]

I too though 12 towers was a bit overkill and I'm not sure how well a boutique hotel would do over there; you know, big price without the location. I don't think it will be an epic flop like Petrie Island mostly because it is much closer to Downtown and some units will have awesome views of Downtown.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I too though 12 towers was a bit overkill and I'm not sure how well a boutique hotel would do over there; you know, big price without the location. I don't think it will be an epic flop like Petrie Island mostly because it is much closer to Downtown and some units will have awesome views of Downtown.

Oddly enough they want to build the boutique hotel and the spa first.

Not sure about the hotel either - especially in the case of boutique hotels clients want to be near stuff. Other than the spa itself (and I will get to that later) I don't see the attractiveness of this sector for hotel patrons. It's neither "city centre" nor "charming and pastoral in the country or the woods".

Getting boutique hotels built in downtown Hull and (even downtown Ottawa to some degree) is not even a no-brainer and there is a lot more stuff around there to attract patrons.

Gatineau has been trying for years to get a new hotel built in the Cité, La Gappe, Maloney area and so far has been unsuccessful. Yet this area has thousands of jobs in government offices, a sports centre (out of town clubs and teams), the Maison de la culture (visiting artists), a hospital, major shopping destinations, etc. - all of which have lots of potential to draw hotel patrons.

I guess the Vieux-Port has the casino not that far away, but my sense is that market is already pretty well-served.

As for the spa, well you have Le Nordik of course, plus BleuSpa in Cantley and there is also an Amérispa at the Hilton next to the casino.

If there's anything that's close to as sure thing in this, it's the condos, believe it or not.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Oddly enough they want to build the boutique hotel and the spa first.

Not sure about the hotel either - especially in the case of boutique hotels clients want to be near stuff. Other than the spa itself (and I will get to that later) I don't see the attractiveness of this sector for hotel patrons. It's neither "city centre" nor "charming and pastoral in the country or the woods".

Getting boutique hotels built in downtown Hull and (even downtown Ottawa to some degree) is not even a no-brainer and there is a lot more stuff around there to attract patrons.

Gatineau has been trying for years to get a new hotel built in the Cité, La Gappe, Maloney area and so far has been unsuccessful. Yet this area has thousands of jobs in government offices, a sports centre (out of town clubs and teams), the Maison de la culture (visiting artists), a hospital, major shopping destinations, etc. - all of which have lots of potential to draw hotel patrons.

I guess the Vieux-Port has the casino not that far away, but my sense is that market is already pretty well-served.

As for the spa, well you have Le Nordik of course, plus BleuSpa in Cantley and there is also an Amérispa at the Hilton next to the casino.

If there's anything that's close to as sure thing in this, it's the condos, believe it or not.

I'm fairly confident the spa will also see significant success but I too have my doubts about the hotel. As for the condos, I'm sure they will sell but it might take a more than 10 years.

I saw a rendering of the condo tower on Le Téléjournal which I can't find online, would you know where to get it or any other renderings of this project?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm fairly confident the spa will also see significant success but I too have my doubts about the hotel. As for the condos, I'm sure they will sell but it might take a more than 10 years.

I saw a rendering of the condo tower on Le Téléjournal which I can't find online, would you know where to get it or any other renderings of this project?

You may be right about the spa. Lots of demand for these thingies these days.

As for the renders... sorry. No idea.

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I could see this guy pulling a Harris and cancelling the Confederation Line. Also, I can't contemplate who the hell would want to operate a private mass transit system. There is a reason why the City has to pay 50% of OC Transpo's budget out of pocket; it is impossible to make money on transit (at least in Ottawa).

I truly hope he, or whoever runs and wins the Mayor election, doesn't cancel the Confed Line - that would be a huge error in my opinion.

While I agree that it is difficult to make money on transit in Ottawa at this point in time, the LRT will (hopefully) do what similar transit lines have done in other cities - force more intensification along the transit stations, which in turn, brings more users to the transit system.

Ottawa has a huge geographical area considering its population, so using public transit only isn't a viable transportation solution for most Ottawans. But this new LRT claims to be able to bring passengers from Tunney's to the Blair station in 24 mins - a feat that would be difficult, if not impossible, with a car on an early Sunday morning drive with limited traffic. You can already see construction permits and applications increase around the locations for the stations, as mentioned earlier, hopefully that'll be enough to make transit more profitable in this city.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

I truly hope he, or whoever runs and wins the Mayor election, doesn't cancel the Confed Line - that would be a huge error in my opinion.

While I agree that it is difficult to make money on transit in Ottawa at this point in time, the LRT will (hopefully) do what similar transit lines have done in other cities - force more intensification along the transit stations, which in turn, brings more users to the transit system.

Ottawa has a huge geographical area considering its population, so using public transit only isn't a viable transportation solution for most Ottawans. But this new LRT claims to be able to bring passengers from Tunney's to the Blair station in 24 mins - a feat that would be difficult, if not impossible, with a car on an early Sunday morning drive with limited traffic. You can already see construction permits and applications increase around the locations for the stations, as mentioned earlier, hopefully that'll be enough to make transit more profitable in this city.

Agreed 100%. I think the same can be said for almost everyone on the forum.

Relax. The Confederation Line won't be cancelled. By the time the 2014-18 council is sworn into office, we'll have been tunnelling under downtown for a year and a half and the trains would already be under construction. Cancelling it would be more or less impossible. The provincial & federal governments would never allow it. Heck, if Maguire tried to cancel the project the province would probably override him and force it to go on.

Also, Maguire won't win. He's too much of a nutjob. The seniors-in-pajamas CFRC & Sun Media crowds will vote for him, and that's about it. 10% of popular vote, max.

He's not going to pull a Rob Ford style upset, two reasons: 1) Toronto's incumbent mayor had stepped down, 2) Toronto council was very unpopular and everybody hated it (sort of like Ottawa's 2006-10 council), 3) People perceived City Hall to be massively corrupt so Ford's anti-spending rhetoric really got on with people.

Watson is popular, people think he's done a good job, and the perception is that this council's been good with its money. He'll win with 65%+ of the vote.

It will be just like Andy Haydon in the last election. Everybody treated him like a serious candidate despite being a major loony, CFRC & the Sun loved him, and he won only 7% of the vote.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Relax. The Confederation Line won't be cancelled. By the time the 2014-18 council is sworn into office, we'll have been tunnelling under downtown for a year and a half and the trains would already be under construction. Cancelling it would be more or less impossible. The provincial & federal governments would never allow it. Heck, if Maguire tried to cancel the project the province would probably override him and force it to go on.

Google "Eglinton West subway line". Then add "Tim Hudak" to your search.

[JackBauer24]

So in 1995 Hudak was opposed to it and then almost 20 years later he's "flip-flopped"? I haven't read thoroughly through the articles, but it's not impossible to assume that certain factors have changed to add a greater need for a transit line today rather than 2 decades ago.

In 1995, had anyone even suggested Ottawa have an LR or subway? However today, a Light Rail makes sense.

Originally Posted by phil235

Google "Eglinton West subway line". Then add "Tim Hudak" to your search.

[TMA-1]

One answer to "In 1995..." 1995 (98?) or a little later was about the time Tim Lane, David Jeanes and others in Transport 2000 started working on the LRT project on an extremely grass-roots level. One of the reasons I started aerial photography was to document the many 'hidden' rail lines in Ottawa. 'Hidden" because they're all over the place but very hard to see from ground level. The really-bad-old-days of taking 30 rolls of film up there. Got my first taste of rail-nutism. I haven't looked at my old chrome - I wonder if my dates are correct? It *was* close to decades ago, though.

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

So in 1995 Hudak was opposed to it and then almost 20 years later he's "flip-flopped"? I haven't read thoroughly through the articles, but it's not impossible to assume that certain factors have changed to add a greater need for a transit line today rather than 2 decades ago.

In 1995, had anyone even suggested Ottawa have an LR or subway? However today, a Light Rail makes sense.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

So in 1995 Hudak was opposed to it and then almost 20 years later he's "flip-flopped"? I haven't read thoroughly through the articles, but it's not impossible to assume that certain factors have changed to add a greater need for a transit line today rather than 2 decades ago.

In 1995, had anyone even suggested Ottawa have an LR or subway? However today, a Light Rail makes sense.

That wasn't really my point. I was attempting to cleverly respond to the suggestion that a transit line couldn't be cancelled once the digging had begun. The digging was well underway on Eglinton when Mike Harris' government was elected and cancelled the project, ordering the hole filled in. Hudak was a Harris insider who supported the cancellation. That's all.

[S-Man]

As per my comment a week ago, maybe we can move the dredging of Mike Harris ghosts from the 1990s over to the appropriate forum, like, say, the 'business, politics and economy' thread?

Or is there an 18-storey Mike Harris Tower being proposed that needs rezoning in order to be built somewhere in Ottawa? Please correct me if that is actually the case. I know Ottawans looooove to talk about politics all day - in their sleep, in the shower, while pleasing the wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend, but please, give it an appropriate forum.

Next we'll have long discussions of Rob Ford and the crack tape in threads for the Longfields subdivision because Ford once drove through one (Or because we just CAN'T FRIGGIN HELP OURSELVES!). Hack it somewhere else, please. This isn't a CBC News comment thread, for Christ's sake.

[S-Man]

Rather than waiting for a possible response, I've gone and made you guys an upcoming election thread in the appropriate forum.

Go nuts.

[rocketphish]

Keep McDonald’s out, far-north Kanatans tell city planners

By David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen August 20, 2013 9:31 PM

OTTAWA — A McDonald’s proposed for the far north end of Kanata should get the go-ahead over neighbours’ objections, the city’s planning department says, because few of the complaints deal with anything the city’s allowed to do anything about.

Smells, plans for a 24-hour drive-thru window, the illumination of a sign, the fact that McDonald’s “promotes obesity, diabetes, and heart disease” are among the complaints the city can do little to control, at least with zoning codes. According to the official report recommending the development be permitted, one resident worries the restaurant will be a magnet for idle teens who will “loiter and get into trouble in the neighbourhood.”

“The proposed development itself does not necessitate teenager troubles,” the planners respond. Of 39 comments the proposal drew in public consultations, their report says, only five were in favour of the restaurant.

The property at 894 March Rd., at the intersection with Maxwell Bridge Road, has been zoned as “development reserve” land, which is the usual label for property on the very edge of the suburbs that’s due for new construction soon. As usual, the actual McDonald’s will take up only a small part of the lot; parking spots are to take up most of the rest, with a line of trees separating the new development from homes nearby.

A McDonald’s is in keeping with nearby single-family homes and a strip-mall across the street, according to the planning department’s report, and it fits with the city’s desire to make neighbourhoods walkable because it’s conveniently located on the edge of a residential neighbourhood (though one resident argued that the area should stay purely residential, with no commercial buildings permitted to back onto any houses). Also, it will include bike parking, which is appropriate considering the bike lanes on March Road.

Several of the complaints about the project might actually be addressed later in a more finely detailed process called site-plan control. That’s where things such as the height of a bright road sign and the direction that vents will blow kitchen smells will be dealt with.

City council’s planning committee is to vote on the proposal next Tuesday.

[email protected]

ottawacitizen.com/greaterottawa
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa...ns+tell+city+planners/8813139/story.html

I wonder what Bill Teron would say?

[S-Man]

He's probably clutching his chest and seeking ways of having those 2-year-old houses and strip mall declared 'heritage'.

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by phil235

That wasn't really my point. I was attempting to cleverly respond to the suggestion that a transit line couldn't be cancelled once the digging had begun. The digging was well underway on Eglinton when Mike Harris' government was elected and cancelled the project, ordering the hole filled in. Hudak was a Harris insider who supported the cancellation. That's all.

Ah, gotcha.
Then your point made sense.

[citydwlr]

This is technically within the Ottawa city limits, so I'll add it here...OBJ today posted an article on a proposed Observatory "park" in Madawaska. It's a neat idea, but I think they need a little more of a draw to get people out there. They are proposing some professional telescope facilities, a visitor centre with theatre, what looks to be a viewing platform and a neighbouring 4.5-star hotel. Here are some of the renders:





(The renders are both from the King's Centre for Visualization Science - their article is dated June 2012, so this project must have been in the works for some time already)

There's also no rendering of the Hotel, sadly. The main visitor building is somewhat unimpressive IMO, and I don't know how they can draw the average person all the way out there. They still need adequate funding to move forward anyway, so who knows if this project will ever see the light of day.

Personally, I think they need a firm like Saunders Architecture to design the hotel (à la Fogo Island Inn) and maybe re-envision the standard observation towers to look like one of the Fogo Island artist studios (with an observatory on top, of course ).

* EDIT: I just noticed they actually have an observatory hotel called "Astro" in their portfolio...

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by citydwlr

This is technically within the Ottawa city limits, so I'll add it here...

I'm not sure what technicality you'd like to cite, but Griffith is most definitely NOT within the city of Ottawa, which ends just east of Arnprior.

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=griffith,+...riffith,+Renfrew+County,+Ontario&t=m&z=9

[citydwlr]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

I'm not sure what technicality you'd like to cite, but Griffith is most definitely NOT within the city of Ottawa, which ends just east of Arnprior.

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=griffith,+...riffith,+Renfrew+County,+Ontario&t=m&z=9

wow...I was way off My bad! Didn't realize it wasn't part of the national capital region :S