The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[officedweller]

BIV commentary says Bay downtown is best location for Saks 5th Ave. with an Off 5th on the SkyTrain Level (with comments from Retail-Insider).

http://www.biv.com/article/20130806/BIV0...n-8217-s-bay-is-best-bet-for-future-saks

Downtown Hudson’s Bay is best bet for future Saks
Renovation logistics point to both a Bay and a Saks on the Granville and Georgia site

By Glen Korstrom

Tue Aug 6, 2013 12:01am PST

The news that luxury retailer Saks Fifth Avenue plans to open seven stores in Canada after being bought by Hudson’s Bay Co. (HBC) (TSX:HBC) has analysts speculating where those stores may be. And in Vancouver that speculation centres on sharing space with the current Hudson’s Bay store in downtown Vancouver.

HBC announced it had bought U.S.-based Saks Inc. (NYSE:SKS) on July 29 for US$2.9 billion.

The most likely Metro Vancouver location for a Saks is in part of the 637,000-square-foot, Hudson’s Bay-owned department store at 674 Granville Street, said Colliers International vice-president and director of retail consulting, James Smerdon.

That space, at the corner of Georgia Street, makes the most sense because it is the highest profile location for signage, would be rent-free because HBC owns the space, and would likely triple sales in the 86-year-old structure, he said.

“They will probably want to maintain the Hudson’s Bay brand there in some format so they will probably split the building,” Smerdon added.

That “split” may take the form of a solid wall separating the two stores and two separate entrances. But Smerdon believes it is more likely that the separation will take the form of floor plans where different floor textures, lighting and products separate the two brands with no actual physical barrier between the stores.

The expense and logistics of adding a second escalator could make complete separation of the stores inside the six-floor building untenable, he added.

But higher sales and profit would help pay for any renovations needed because HBC will aim to have a Saks store in Vancouver do triple the approximately $200 per square foot in sales that is currently generated at the Hudson’s Bay-branded store, Smerdon said.

Retail blog Retail-Insider.com also points to the current Hudson’s Bay store as a possible Saks location and for basement space in the building to be an Off Fifth.

Off Fifth is Saks’ discount line, and HBC has said it may open as many as 25 of those stores in Canada.

CB Richard Ellis is marketing 43,705 square feet of retail space on what it calls the “SkyTrain level” of the building.

“That sub-basement space would be a great space for an Off Fifth discount retailer,” the voice behind Retail-Insider.com, who asked to remain anonymous, told Business in Vancouver in a phone interview.

He added that the space would not be a good location for Saks because of low ceilings and an awkward location.

Smerdon agrees that it would be possible to have Saks share floors one through six with Hudson’s Bay, with the 33,000-square-foot Topshop and Topman store on the concourse level and an Off Fifth on the SkyTrain level.

That’s because Off Fifth carries a substantially different product mix than the main Saks stores do so “there is little crossover,” Smerdon said.

He believes that a better bet for an Off Fifth location, however, would be Richmond’s Lansdowne Mall in what is now one of HBC’s Home Outfitter-branded locations.

Oakridge could be home to future Saks or Off Fifth store

Oakridge Centre is home to the Hudson Bay Co.’s (HBC) second Vancouver store but it is unlikely to house a Saks in the near future.

The Bay store at Oakridge is slated to move to another part of the mall as part of the 506,000-square-foot mall’s proposed 700,000-square-foot expansion. So incurring pricey renovation costs to incorporate a Saks store before the move wouldn’t make sense.

The earliest that a Saks or Bay could open in the redeveloped mall would be 2018, which would be far too late given that HBC CEO Richard Baker said, when announcing the purchase, that he wanted to roll out Saks stores “as quickly as we can.”

“For Oakridge’s redevelopment the Bay has to be moved out of the current location,” said Graeme Silvera, who is vice-president of retail development, western region, at mall-owner Ivanhoe Cambridge.

“Frankly, [HBC] don’t want to have the store that they have. It’s not very functional. It has a basement that is inaccessible and is not a great floor plan so I don’t think [opening a Saks in the current Bay space at Oakridge] would even be in the back of their mind.”

More likely is that HBC could open an Off Fifth discount store at the mall in 2018, assuming that Oakridge gets approval to do its proposed redevelopment.

Oakridge has lined up three anchor tenants so far for its proposed redevelopment: Target, Safeway and the Bay. It is seeking a fourth, Silvera said, adding that either Saks or Off Fifth would be welcome to be the mall’s fourth anchor tenant. So it is possible that both the Bay and Saks could have large full stores in the future Oakridge redevelopment.

http://www.biv.com/article/20130806/BIV0...n-8217-s-bay-is-best-bet-for-future-saks

Here's my preference:

Note that there already is a 2nd escalator in the downtown Bay store in the NE corner - from SkyTrain concourse but only up to level 2.
Unfortunately, that frontage (Seymour) is not the best side of the building for a Saks entrance - but it could work, esp. when the Bay Parkade is redeveloped).
The Saks store could occupy a narrow north-south slice of the building along Seymour with some frontage (including a canopied entrance) on Georgia and adding 2 or 3 more sets of escalators in the NE corner (for 4 or 5 partial floors of retail space). The escalators would just be at the back of the floorplate and the escalators for Hudson's Bay would be at the side of their floorplate. Seymour is up and coming - esp. with Telus Garden kitty corner to that corner of Hudson's Bay.

Using a pic from Hudson's Bay's 6th floor at Retail-Insider.com the floorplate of Saks could be the area in green for maybe 4 floors staring at street level (needing 2 additional escalators). The existing NE escalators to the 2nd floor are located at about the orange oval - note that the existing Hudson's Bay escalators remain reasonably centred in the remaining space. Saks would have canopy entrances on Georgia and Seymour.
One issue could be elevator access for both stores, but an elevator can be installed on the Hudson's Bay side of the store..


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In other news, Saks shareholders are challenging the proposed merger in court:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-02...-halt-2-4-billion-hudson-s-bay-deal.html

[spm2013]

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[officedweller]

I would think so.. Hudson's Bay (even after revamping) is supposed to cater to a wide variety of price points - Saks is strictly upper end and the building is too big for just upper end.

[Retail-Insider]

[QUOTE=officedweller;6223274]BIV commentary says Bay downtown is best location for Saks 5th Ave. with an Off 5th on the SkyTrain Level (with comments from Retail-Insider).

Here's my preference:

Note that there already is a 2nd escalator in the downtown Bay store in the NE corner - from SkyTrain concourse but only up to level 2.
Unfortunately, that frontage (Seymour) is not the best side of the building for a Saks entrance - but it could work, esp. when the Bay Parkade is redeveloped).
The Saks store could occupy a narrow north-south slice of the building along Seymour with some frontage (including a canopied entrance) on Georgia and adding 2 or 3 more sets of escalators in the NE corner (for 4 or 5 partial floors of retail space). The escalators would just be at the back of the floorplate and the escalators for Hudson's Bay would be at the side of their floorplate. Seymour is up and coming - esp. with Telus Garden kitty corner to that corner of Hudson's Bay.

Using a pic from Hudson's Bay's 6th floor at Retail-Insider.com the floorplate of Saks could be the area in green for maybe 4 floors staring at street level (needing 2 additional escalators). The existing NE escalators to the 2nd floor are located at about the orange oval - note that the existing Hudson's Bay escalators remain reasonably centred in the remaining space. Saks would have canopy entrances on Georgia and Seymour.
One issue could be elevator access for both stores, but an elevator can be installed on the Hudson's Bay side of the store..


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Brilliant work, officedweller! Incredibly, you had the exact same ideas and opinions I had about a possible Saks/Bay ground floor configuration, escalators and elevator issue. I went through the store Sunday afternoon measuring the ceiling heights in the sub basement, as well as examining possibly reconfiguring TopShop over 2 levels to allow for more Saks space in the available space beside TopShop. After coming up with numerous possibilities, I've decided to hold back on reporting my opinions until I can get some external confirmation.

Northeast escalators go up to level 3, and it could be more cost effective to utilize only those floors with those escalators for Saks (taking more space on upper floors to bring Saks to about 120,000 sq ft). New elevators would be expensive. Hudson's Bay didn't even bother to replace existing elevators for ladies who shop in The Room :S

Keep in mind that James and I only gave Glen (of BIV) our opinions when he interviewed us. We don't have insider information as to the configuration that Hudson's Bay might use for a possible Saks space. I'm working on trying to get an insider's insight as to what Saks within Hudson's Bay might look like. Given how Hudson's Bay tends to renovate on the cheap, I hope they won't cut corners with Saks (if the deal doesn't fall through due to a possible court-ordered injunction).

I agree with James (Smerdon) that Lansdowne could be a good Off 5th location - though think the Downtown Vancouver Bay sub-basement would be a brilliant location (as well as a store in Lansdowne and others), especially since local condo dwellers like myself would be in there all the time. Since there may be 25 Off 5th Canadian stores, I don't see why we wouldn't see more than one in the Lower Mainland.

I've got plans for the ground floor of the store if anyone is interested. They're slanted and have 'The Bay' in the middle but they still basically do the trick. I'll email them to anyone interested: [email protected]

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Retail-Insider

Northeast escalators go up to level 3, and it could be more cost effective to utilize only those floors with those escalators for Saks (taking more space on upper floors to bring Saks to about 120,000 sq ft). New elevators would be expensive. Hudson's Bay didn't even bother to replace existing elevators for ladies who shop in The Room :S

Up to 3rd floor is even better!

I was thinking that another way they could reconfigure is:

• Reconfigure ground floor as shown above, but create a common elevator lobby with Hudson's Bay. This would split the ground floor of Saks into two spaces, but they don't need to be walled off.
• 2nd and 3rd floors could be entirely Saks
• 4th, 5th and 6th would be entirely Hudson's Bay
• One elevator could be dedicated to Saks floors, the other 3 dedicated to Hudson's Bay floors (running between 3 floors would be faster, so 1 elevator should suffice)
• This would however, create a dead zone on 2nd and 3rd floor around the escalators in Hudson's Bay (even glass wall partitions may not help)
• This also addresses the washroom issue, as washrooms are located near the elevators on each floor (but,even if the floors are split, Hudson's Bay washrooms could just start on the first full floor Hudson's Bay floor)

The main thing that Saks needs is a "grand" ground floor presence.
The ground floor split would be alligned with the window bays on Georgia St.

One concern about full floor Saks would be the "vastness" of the full upper floorplates. Keeping the same (as ground floor) smaller Saks floorplate through 4 or 5 floors would provide a more intimate (higher end) shopping experience - and I think that the quality of the shopping experience (for a high end store) should outweigh cost savings.

Yet another possibility (in combination with consistent smaller floorplates) is to cut an opening in the main floor to create a grand staircase within the Saks space down to a basement men's wear floor. That would alleviate the claustrophobic low ceiling down there. That would give partial floors on basement, main, 2nd and 3rd to Saks (but still have the elevator (and washroom) issues).

[EdinVan]

Why is Business in Vancouver, a professional publication, quoting Retail-Insider? What authority do the authors of that blog have? They're not insiders and they don't even identify themselves publicly.

[Spork]

BIV is absolute garbage. The level of depth in their content is laughable. At one point I thought that they were managed by GlobalBC, but amazingly the two entities are independent. Goes to show the small town thinking that is so predominant here. *sigh*

With regards to Saks, what is to say that HBC wouldn't acquire a property along Alberni within which to build a new store. There are lots of redevelopment opportunities along that stretch, no? Perhaps a store on W Georgia to match that Apple store rumour near/on the RBC site?

[officedweller]

From BIV:

Canada Line rules, location stalled Jugo Juice franchises: lawsuit

By Jen St. Denis

Tue Aug 6, 2013 3:58pm PST

Three former Jugo Juice franchisees are suing the Ontario-based smoothie vendor for allegedly misrepresenting the business case for Jugo Juice locations in Canada Line stations.

In their lawsuit filed August 1, Angela Zhu, De Hong Zhu and Xiao Yan Guan allege that in 2009, a representative of Jugo Juice, Jerry Bleet, offered them an "exclusive" opportunity to operate two franchises located at Canada Line stations.

The plaintiffs claim that in an April 2009 meeting, Bleet and his daughter, Tamara Bleet, told Angela Zhu that:

• Jugo Juice had conducted a thorough investigation of the business viability of operating a franchise at Canada Line stations;
  
• commuters would be able to consume beverages while travelling on the train;
  
• Jugo Juice franchises would be the only businesses selling food or drinks in the stations along the Canada Line system;
  
• the franchises would be located outside of the fare-paid zone; and
  
• their employees would be able to travel between the two franchises on the Canada Line for free.

Based on that information, the Zhus and Guan entered into franchise agreements, according to the claim. They allege that Jerry Bleet told Angela Zhu she would have to sign the agreement within three days and that there was no time for her to review the agreements with a lawyer.

As the company Red Gate Holdings Inc., the Zhus and Guan operated two Jugo Juice franchises at King Edward and Oakridge stations on the Canada Line between 2009 and 2013.

The Zhus and Guan claim that, contrary to what Bleet had told them, Canada Line operator InTransit BC intended to prohibit food and drink on the train, other businesses were allowed to sell food at the stations and the Jugo Juice franchises were located partially or entirely within the fare paid zone.

The Zhus and Guan claim that because the Oakridge store was partially in the fare paid zone, their employees were required to "purchase multiple Skytrain tickets to come and go from the store."

...

http://www.biv.com/article/20130806/BIV0...on-stalled-jugo-juice-franchises-lawsuit

[red-paladin]

Interesting.

[dreambrother808]

Is Urban Outfitters on Granville expanding into the old Puma space next door? Looking inside, it appears so.

[Klazu]

Victoria's Secret is set to open on August 27th. Didn't know that the location will be one of the largest Victoria’s Secret in the world.

[whatnext]

If you missed it, there was an interesting article in the Sun yesterday about the challenges Vancouver retailers face with regards to cross-border shopping:
http://www.vancouversun.com/Shop+owner+takes+cross+border+shopping+fight/8762297/story.html

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Is Urban Outfitters on Granville expanding into the old Puma space next door? Looking inside, it appears so.

UO has opened a new concept store in new york perhaps they will do that here with that extra space or bring in more furniture

[djh]

Originally Posted by whatnext

If you missed it, there was an interesting article in the Sun yesterday about the challenges Vancouver retailers face with regards to cross-border shopping:
http://www.vancouversun.com/Shop+owner+takes+cross+border+shopping+fight/8762297/story.html

It'll be interesting to look at the ratio of men-to-women on launch day...

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by officedweller

From BIV:http://www.biv.com/article/20130806/BIV0...on-stalled-jugo-juice-franchises-lawsuit

I can't imagine anyone signing anything regarding opening a business without consulting a lawyer.

A monkey could see those businesses were going nowhere.

[wrenegade]

Ya I really can't believe awarding a blanket contract to Jugo Juice for all of the stations made sense. Mini Tim Horton's or Starbucks or Blenz would have made a lot more sense, especially offering the opportunity to have different vendors in different locations. That being said, in my opinion most of the stations are really too small to have vendors in the first place.

[WarrenC12]

It would have made far more sense to have JJ or any other quick cafe located at ground level, outside but attached to the station, like the JJ at Waterfront.

Almost all of the C-Line stations have empty space around the stairs, like Oakridge, 49th, King Ed, etc.

[sacrifice333]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

Ya I really can't believe awarding a blanket contract to Jugo Juice for all of the stations made sense. Mini Tim Horton's or Starbucks or Blenz would have made a lot more sense, especially offering the opportunity to have different vendors in different locations. That being said, in my opinion most of the stations are really too small to have vendors in the first place.

Especially in fare-paid zones like at Olympic Village station. #ofcourseitdidntsurvive

[hollywoodnorth]

TransLink seeks to boost SkyTrain retail revenue

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/08/12/bc-translink-commercial-hub.html

TransLink officials say they are looking to turn SkyTrain stations into commercial hubs as a means to generate revenue.

"TransLink is open for business," said Doug Kelsey, TransLink's chief operating officer.

Kelsey agrees that compared to other cities, Vancouver isn't doing enough to maximize transit hubs for their real estate value.

[spm2013]

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