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Originally Posted by alecz_dad
To clarify, the community sought to protect the existing recreational park from being folded into OSMUG's Lansdowne scheme. When it became clear that several of the urban park proposals sought to destroy the remaining bit of Sylvia Holden Park, in service of a tabula rasa upon which the designers' fanciful plans could be activistibed, several community members mobilized to seek guarantees from Council that the park would not be touched.
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This is a common misconception. The park where I spent many childhood days was not under threat. The small strip of grass and trees connecting the park to Bank St. was. People were freaking out that the park would be destroyed, but the city and OSEG were only ever talking about the small strip of grass and trees. Granted, I would've liked it and the little park at the corner of Bank and Holmwood to be preserved, but the overwhelming amount of use and traffic in the park comes to the main park which is hidden behind the fire station.
And in a way, Sylvia Holden Park is gaining much more park space with the urban park development.
Oh, and one more thing, what the hell does "activistibed" mean?
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Nonetheless, when I look at the final design of Lansdowne, despite OSMUG's claims to the contrary, I still see a fundamentally homogenous, suburban-style development, with nothing to do with the surrounding community.
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Yes, because a grid pattern, high density, bike racks, pedestrian sidewalks, plazas and condo towers all scream "homogenous suburban-style development".
Get a grip on reality.
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Just a carpet-bagging power centre, dressed up in pretty clothes, leeching off the success of past Glebe residents in fighting previous grand schemes to drive expessways through their community, or to annex everything from Holmwood up to Fifth Ave to enlarge the Ex grounds, thereby preserving the historic character that has made the Glebe such a distinctive, desirable place to live.
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Yeah, it's SUCH a power centre. That's why there's a Whole Foods instead of a Wal Mart, an LCBO instead of a Canadian Tire, a farmers market, cafes, and a big-ass park. Yeah, that is SO suburban.
Also, I'm curious to see how you explain the impossible concept of the OSEG development (which you clearly hate) somehow "leeching off the success" of past Glebe residents, especially when this could be seen as a failure on their part?
But yeah, gotta keep the Ex small and contained, and never-changing. That's what Glebites love, and that's what kills enterprises like the Ex or forces them to move. And yes, the Glebe is a distinctive and desirable place to live. For middle-aged adults and pensioners. For the kids though, not a whole lot to do, especially anything that's affordable. That's why so many kids from the Glebe often crossed into Centretown, or just drank alcohol and did drugs in the parks in the Glebe.
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Originally Posted by alecz_dad
I cannot take credit for it. More likely a combination of the mid-summer doldrums in the newsroom, and some Citizen or CBC reporter (forget who had the story first) passing by seeing and hearing what a state Lansdowne and its surroundings are in, thinking they could fill a bit of news space.
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Yes, it was all a conspiracy/"if only we had more money and resources!"
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Unfortunately, neither I, nor anyone else on the Lansdowne critics' side had anything like the PR resources that OSMUG and the City were able to marshal to promote their scheme. I suppose now that it's all said and done, it's safe again to let the people most directly harmed by Lansdowne to speak their little pieces.
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Harmed? Seriously? Development and noise do not kill you, your children, or your neighbourhood.
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Originally Posted by JFFournier
You're complaining about a children's playground. The city held a design competition for the entire front lawn portion well after it had decided to go with the OSEG plan which, at the time, included little more than a grass field. The city didn't have to do that, and tack on another $20-something million, just to be crapped on further.
You don't want any sort of olive branch extended. You'll play the victim no matter what the city does and no matter how many judges confirm that it was within its rights to proceed as it did.
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Originally Posted by alecz_dad
As far as I'm aware, difficult neighbours exist everywhere.
Perhaps if you didn't like your living arrangements you should, as I am so often told, simply have moved elsewhere.
Easier said than done, I suspect. Right?
Besides, in my case, I actually like my neighbours, street and community.
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I'm not sure whether the fact that you completely missed his point amuses me, or disturbs me.
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Originally Posted by alecz_dad
I'm "complaining" about the fact that OSMUG and the City will not give one little iota to the existing neighbouring residents on anything to do with Lansdowne.
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Considering the earliest proposals and concepts were like this:
We've come a long way. We've come pottery barn, aquarium, parkade buildings and "condos in the park" to the current plan, which is a hell of a lot better than what we started with, and it's all due to public pressure not just from Glebites, but from people around Ottawa.
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Indeed, that has been their whole approach: that because it is City property, with an intent to provide an attraction appealing to the whole city's residents, except, somehow, for those residents who live closest to Lansdowne, who have been most affected by the disruption of the construction, and who, simply by virtue of their proximity, will likely be the most intensive users of the facilities.
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You were approached, you chose to freak out and not participate. That's your fault, not the developer's.
I also wasn't aware that Glebites made the overwhelming majority of 67's fans and football fans.
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Wouldn't it therefore make sense to cater at least in some small way to them? I think that anywhere else in the City, the City would not get away with simply deeming the concerns of the immediate neighbours or a project as being utterly without merit or interest.
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You HAVE been catered to. Also, screw that word. And when it involves city property that is used by people from around Ottawa, you'd be surprised how often the argument of "city and its citizens first" comes out instead of "Well I live next to it and I don't like it". You think the people living near the Transitway liked it when the Scott St. Trench was built? Or the Palladium? Or the Queensway and the expropriation of houses alongside it? or the development and redevelopment at Baseline?
Glebites are finally dealing with something nearly everyone else in Ottawa has had to deal with for some time now; progress and development.
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It is clear that the judges have given their rulings - and that FoE and John Martin were utterly wrong-headed in trying to work through processes - they should have spent their money on a kick-ass PR agency, to try to match the extremely deep-pocketed OSMUG and City.
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Yeah, because fuck our cherished legal institutions and the law, amirite?
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Originally Posted by S-Man
That's terrific. Yes, I did move out when it became possible, thank you. I was just hoping the landlord/authorities might enforce the laws/bylaws/tenant agreement first.
Nope! No REAL justice for those suffering due to actual lawbreakers.
I'm sure the kid is still being beaten in the middle of the night. But I've driven past since, and the construction ended long ago. See, construction is a finite thing. It ends. And no amount of "I like my neighbourhood" is going to defer construction because you're there enjoying life.
We saw it during the Bank Street reconstruction. We've seen it during Lansdowne. We saw it when a local bus route was temporarily diverted down a side street. We saw it when an air conditioner on top of an old folk's home made noise - forcing locals into hysterics. Ottawa Citizen articles written about Glebe complaints for all of those.
Should I also bring up the Glebe restaurant owner who wants a food truck moved from across the street because his wait-60-minutes-for-a-burger establishment doesn't see many return customers? Yes, a Citizen and CBC article about his 'real life annoys me' sob story.
So there's the context of people's annoyance with people like you. You (and many others, it would seem) want special privileges - laws, compensation, extra amounts of say - to prevent the realities of everyday life from intruding into your perfect, idyllic lives.
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Once again...
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend
The problem here is that nobody likes change, but change is inevitable. After 40 years of neglect, big change was coming. If it weren't for all the delay tactics, we could have had a more relaxed construction schedule but this is one of the outcomes of the actions taken. And really, there is a sense that one should have control over property that one does not own. It is a reality, we don't have control over what our neighbours are doing and that includes the city. The construction will pass and a new calm will be created in the neigbourhood. It will be different but as I said, change was inevitable.
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This right here.
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Originally Posted by alecz_dad
I guess different rules apply to OSMUG, as they have succeeded in asserting control over property that they do not own.
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There are not "two sets of rules". OSEG saw an opportunity and took it.
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I'm guessing that if this sort of development was being proposed a few hundred feet away from John Pugh's house on Linden Terrace, or John Ruddy's mansion in swanky Rothwell Heights, they would both be on the phone to the mayor, demanding that the plans be changed.
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A) There's no reason such a proposal would go there because there's no existing infrastructure base like there is at Lansdowne and
B) Just because you're mad about development, doesn't mean it won't go ahead or will be changed. If Glebites had worked WITH OSEG instead of AGAINST them, things could've been much better. In my neighbourhood, there's an increase in development, but the local CA is working with developers more often than not. We're keeping some outlandish proposals out, and getting decent concessions. Our most recent development was perfectly in scale with the surrounding neighbourhood, gave us ground-level retail, some more trees, and a local artist made a piece that has gone on the side of the building so we don't have a bland wall to look at when walking, biking, or driving by. It's a good development that adds to the community because the community understands that things change. They also know that it's becoming a more desirable neighbourhood and that they can either use that to their advantage, or waste energy fighting something that will most likely happen anyway.
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It's interesting that the supporters of the Lansdowne scheme all say "change is inevitable," "you have to accept change." But the one change they are unwilling to accept, is that perhaps the time to have a stadium located at Lansdowne has passed. It made sense to put the exhibition grounds, and later, a football stadium at Lansdowne, when it was on the edge of town.
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*facepalm*
When it was on the edge of town, the Glebe was suburbia and this was over 80 years ago. Right now, a lot of people are miffed at the fact that the Palladium was not built downtown or close to Downtown. Plus, there's what S-Man said:
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Originally Posted by S-Man
I see. Something having been in a location for over a century is actually cold, hard proof that it should really be somewhere else.
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You really need to get a grip, daddy-o.
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