ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[1lifealex]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/06/atlanta-finally-strikes-deal-with-church/ Deal with Church made.

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by 1lifealex

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/06/atlanta-finally-strikes-deal-with-church/ Deal with Church made.

This would still need to be ratified by the congregation. Interesting part of the press conference was the fact that Mayor Reed and GWCCA don't seem to be on the same page on negotiations with Mount Vernon. It sounded like the mayor was begging GWCCA to get back to the negotiation table, but it appears GWCCA and the Falcons are focused on the north site, which they preferred in the first place.

[scania]

Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East

This would still need to be ratified by the congregation. Interesting part of the press conference was the fact that Mayor Reed and GWCCA don't seem to be on the same page on negotiations with Mount Vernon. It sounded like the mayor was begging GWCCA to get back to the negotiation table, but it appears GWCCA and the Falcons are focused on the north site, which they preferred in the first place.

I thought the Falcons preferred the south site.

[RudyJK]

Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East

This would still need to be ratified by the congregation. Interesting part of the press conference was the fact that Mayor Reed and GWCCA don't seem to be on the same page on negotiations with Mount Vernon. It sounded like the mayor was begging GWCCA to get back to the negotiation table, but it appears GWCCA and the Falcons are focused on the north site, which they preferred in the first place.

This whole charade stinks to high heaven. Watch out for the revelations of the back room deals and political ploys that will surely come out about these manipulations, but only after the ink and cement are dry. These churches are making a mint, Blank gets his shiny tacky toy, Reed comes out looking like a diplomatic power broker and the taxpayer, even if they are from out state, gets the screw job.

At least Reed learned from the best - the Jackson family got rich off the airport. Let's see how Reed's finances swell; especially when he runs for his next office. Many campaign promises will be kept then.

[midtownblue]

Originally Posted by RudyJK

This whole charade stinks to high heaven. Watch out for the revelations of the back room deals and political ploys that will surely come out about these manipulations, but only after the ink and cement are dry. These churches are making a mint, Blank gets his shiny tacky toy, Reed comes out looking like a diplomatic power broker and the taxpayer, even if they are from out state, gets the screw job.

At least Reed learned from the best - the Jackson family got rich off the airport. Let's see how Reed's finances swell; especially when he runs for his next office. Many campaign promises will be kept then.

Is there anything or anyone that you like? Must you be so utterly negative? Perhaps you should run for office and try to right these wrongs. Those in office can be voted out, but you need to provide a workable alternative. Nobody buys my vote, so convince me that you offer a better choice.

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by scania

I thought the Falcons preferred the south site.

I read that the Falcons and GWCCA preferred the north site, hence the Georgia Legislature purchasing the land north of the north site from the Atlanta Housing Authority just in case, but Mayor Reed convinced then to investigate the south site. I think Reed just wanted the stadium to have an MLK address, and he made a few promises to Councilmembers and his supporters that he'd have it built there. It seems like GWCCA and the Falcons threw Reed a bone by giving the City until August 1 to broker a deal with the churches, since he sounded like he was begging GWCCA to "keep trying" to buy Mount Vernon.

Frankly, I hope GWCCA and the Falcons refuse to reopen negotiations with Mount Vernon and move forward with the north site.

[echinatl]

Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East

I read that the Falcons and GWCCA preferred the north site, hence the Georgia Legislature purchasing the land north of the north site from the Atlanta Housing Authority just in case, but Mayor Reed convinced then to investigate the south site. I think Reed just wanted the stadium to have an MLK address, and he made a few promises to Councilmembers and his supporters that he'd have it built there. It seems like GWCCA and the Falcons threw Reed a bone by giving the City until August 1 to broker a deal with the churches, since he sounded like he was begging GWCCA to "keep trying" to buy Mount Vernon.

Frankly, I hope GWCCA and the Falcons refuse to reopen negotiations with Mount Vernon and move forward with the north site.

Interesting. I always thought the South site was the focus, I can't remember anything that I've read which puts the focus North. The problem with GWCC is apparently they can't offer more than the appraised value. Looking at all the pieces if the south site is really preferred the deal isn't going to fall apart over 5ish mil, which is what it'll take to get the second church (It's smaller that the other church so I doubt they could expect to receive more than Friendship got). The money will come from somewhere. However, if the North site really is preferred then Mt Vernon becomes the perfect excuse for the Falcons to head North.

[Tuckerman]

From a construction point of view it really doesn't make any difference, North or South. The only real advantage for the South site is closeness to MARTA, but the North site is only a 20 minute walk ( a good walk after sitting for four hours). We know from history that development around stadia (in any city) is very ephemeral, sometime it works and sometimes not. There are many examples of both success and failure across the country.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Tuckerman

From a construction point of view it really doesn't make any difference, North or South. The only real advantage for the South site is closeness to MARTA, but the North site is only a 20 minute walk ( a good walk after sitting for four hours). We know from history that development around stadia (in any city) is very ephemeral, sometime it works and sometimes not. There are many examples of both success and failure across the country.

Very good observations.

I have always thought that the willingness of people to walk depends more on the quality of the walk than the distance. If it's a pleasant, safe and interesting stroll, most people don't mind walking a half mile. But if you have to use a narrow sidewalk next to a big road full of traffic zooming by it's another story.

So whichever location they use, especially if it's the north site, very careful attention should be paid to the pedestrian environment.

[Libertarian]

Originally Posted by arjay57

very careful attention should be paid to the pedestrian environment

It seems the pedestrian environment is already pretty good on both Northside and Ivan Allen, right?

[forj]

honestly only thing i like about the south site is there is possibly a better view of the skyline, and MARTA. dont forget the gulch is still going to be there separating the stadium from the city - by the time the gulch is redeveloped we are going to need another new stadium!

north site is way bigger and probably offers more room for plazas or other elements such as that around the stadium.. and it is very close to the Ga Aquarium and centennial park. it would also spur development along Marietta and be a big reason to put a street car up northside or marrietta which would be fantastic.

i just want this bureaucracy mess to be over with and for construction to start - whether north or south site. but with 4 years until the thing is done, there is plenty of time to address the pedestrian access situation with the north site - especially if they are saving 35 million on not buying the churches!

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by Libertarian

It seems the pedestrian environment is already pretty good on both Northside and Ivan Allen, right?

ha!

[Libertarian]

OK maybe more retail would be nice but at least there are new wide sidewalks, well-marked crosswalks, good signalling, and adequate street lighting on both streets.

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[echinatl]

Plenty of time to address the walk-ability concerns but I've done that walk before and it is absolutely terrible.

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[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by echinatl

Interesting. I always thought the South site was the focus, I can't remember anything that I've read which puts the focus North. The problem with GWCC is apparently they can't offer more than the appraised value. Looking at all the pieces if the south site is really preferred the deal isn't going to fall apart over 5ish mil, which is what it'll take to get the second church (It's smaller that the other church so I doubt they could expect to receive more than Friendship got). The money will come from somewhere. However, if the North site really is preferred then Mt Vernon becomes the perfect excuse for the Falcons to head North.

Exactly

[Midtown_DD]

Originally Posted by Libertarian

It seems the pedestrian environment is already pretty good on both Northside and Ivan Allen, right?

Distance is the primary factor for walking, far above pedestrian environment and local amenities. Some people here have stated that moving the stadium to the North site would not (or should not) affect transit use much, or that people should be willing to walk half a mile. While I agree that half a mile isn't a significant distance, ARC's recent travel survey (multi-million dollar effort, click here) shows that people won't walk more than 0.28 miles on average (N=5014 trips). 0.28 miles should take the average person about 5 minutes.

It'd be naive of us and the city to assume that no matter how wonderful we make the walk any significant number of people will take it. I agree in an ideal world that everyone should walk a half mile to a stadium with no issue, but we have to plan for the real world, not a dream...and the fact of the matter is that Americans (especially in cities like Atlanta) generally refuse to walk.

[forj]

"Give me convenience or give me death" - Dead Kennedys

It's very close to the same distance from Civic Center Marta as it is from Vine City or Dome/GWCC.. if North Site happens, would be really cool to see an extension of the street car in a big loop, from Centennial Park down around Philips arena, up Northside, over Ivan Alan connecting back at Centennial. they should just do that anyway

[Libertarian]

Originally Posted by Midtown_DD

the fact of the matter is that Americans (especially in cities like Atlanta) generally refuse to walk.

That's a shame, especially during football season when the weather is generally dry and cool.