PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

Can we call Allegheny Center a stadium so that it automatically becomes obsolete and flattened?

Allegheny Center was obsolete once... but the property adapted to a new, successful model and remains ruggedly resilient.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

Can we call Allegheny Center a stadium so that it automatically becomes obsolete and flattened?

For what reason? Because it doesn't suit our urban redevelopment sensibilities? I agree it's a lousy development in terms of lack of connections to the street grid along with the stupidity of the forced, 4 block long traffic "square" if you will, but the apartments are fully leased and the office space is nearly 100% full. Sorry, but I have to disagree with you and others that openly advocate demolishing it just because it's ugly. This isn't like a stadium. Are you saying Three Rivers Stadium should have stayed and that Heinz Field should have never been built? No PNC Park? Or is this yet another sad recollection of the demolition of the ugly Civic Arena?

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Minivan Werner]

I understand it's not going to be leveled and completely rebuilt overnight. But a long-term plan to slowly re-develop what isn't being utilized and reconnect the street grid doesn't seem too far-fetched. Eventually someone will hopefully realize that a dead mall being used by tech companies because of the building's unique construction isn't the optimal use of that real estate.

Long-term, if the city needs to build up and has run out of space in the triangle, Allegheny Center would be the place I'd go.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by glowrock

For what reason? Because it doesn't suit our urban redevelopment sensibilities? I agree it's a lousy development in terms of lack of connections to the street grid along with the stupidity of the forced, 4 block long traffic "square" if you will, but the apartments are fully leased and the office space is nearly 100% full. Sorry, but I have to disagree with you and others that openly advocate demolishing it just because it's ugly. This isn't like a stadium. Are you saying Three Rivers Stadium should have stayed and that Heinz Field should have never been built? No PNC Park? Or is this yet another sad recollection of the demolition of the ugly Civic Arena?

Aaron (Glowrock)

It should be demolished because it absolutely wrecks the North Side. It won't be demolished because it's a successful property for its owners.

[markson33]

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

I understand it's not going to be leveled and completely rebuilt overnight. But a long-term plan to slowly re-develop what isn't being utilized and reconnect the street grid doesn't seem too far-fetched. Eventually someone will hopefully realize that a dead mall being used by tech companies because of the building's unique construction isn't the optimal use of that real estate.

Long-term, if the city needs to build up and has run out of space in the triangle, Allegheny Center would be the place I'd go.

While I would love to see it redeveloped, I have to disagree about the optimal use issue. It's not about what people want its about what kind of rent can you get. Allegheny Center Mall is making a lot of money for its owners.

[Steel City Scotty]

During the summer of 2006, I interned at FOX Sports Net when it was located inside that big, ugly, brown box building, which is the most noticeable feature in the sky when looking toward Allegheny Center. At the time, it certainly seemed like the sports station was one of the only tenants inside that entire building.

It was eerily reminiscent of a ghost town. There was even an old Wendy's sign outside of the door I entered through on the first floor, an indication that the building may have once been popular and full of people.

I'm not sure if things have improved since then, but if they have, that's good. A successful modern-day Allegheny Center certainly takes some of the sting away from all of the demolition of beautiful buildings that was done several decades ago.

[themaguffin]

For what reason? Because it doesn't suit our urban redevelopment sensibilities? I agree it's a lousy development in terms of lack of connections to the street grid along with the stupidity of the forced, 4 block long traffic "square" if you will, but the apartments are fully leased and the office space is nearly 100% full. Sorry, but I have to disagree with you and others that openly advocate demolishing it just because it's ugly. This isn't like a stadium. Are you saying Three Rivers Stadium should have stayed and that Heinz Field should have never been built? No PNC Park? Or is this yet another sad recollection of the demolition of the ugly Civic Arena?

Actually it's ugliness and lack of connections fall further down the list for me.

One can't help but see how much of a footprint it holds and it's vast waste of land.... so many amazing things could happen on that land.

My only thought about it staying as is that nothing amazing would go there, it would be more bland tiny, pleasant (at best) 2-4 story buildings. Mind you, my thought isn't that skyscrapers would go there, but that something that makes the best sense, given the amount of land and scale that would be appropriate. That said, it's self contained state gives it more freedom potentially.

My stadium comment was sarcastic given the short life of stadiums, not just in Pittsburgh, but everywhere.

As an aside, PNC Park is a gem, Heinz field is not attraction and even cheap looking. I would go as far to say, that yeah I would prefer Three Rivers, not because I prefer Three Rivers or its many near identical clones from that era, but because paying all that money for Heinz Field just doesn't seem like worthwhile...

[BrianTH]

The Standard Life Building has been sold and the plan is to convert it from now-vacant student housing to apartments:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/loca...d-for-2-million-at-sheriffs-sale-698180/

This is one of the gems of Fourth Avenue:


Standard Life Building by joseph a, on Flickr

[Jonboy1983]

With all of this talk about redeveloping Allegheny Center and our various pipe dreams, here's the three links to each of my blog posts regarding my vision for this neighborhood. Granted, I too do not see any kind of large scale redevelopment happening for a good while. Regardless, here's my 2cents as to how it should be developed.

http://urbandesigneggshell.blogspot.com/2013/07/rethinking-urban-freeways-my-vision-for.html -- Part one, overhauling the freeway network and other car-oriented infrastructure

http://urbandesigneggshell.blogspot.com/2013/07/pittsburghs-north-shore-part-two.html -- continuation of transportation as well as introducing new green space

http://urbandesigneggshell.blogspot.com/2013/07/rethinking-pittsburghs-north-side-part.html -- redevelopment of Allegheny Center itself. I envision a large mixed-use development containing ample office space coupled with retail/hotel/residential uses. Beneath a rebuilt South Commons Blvd. I also envision a northern LRT extension that will include a station directly serving this development. I also envision a new heavy rail line that will serve the heart of the North Side (Allegheny Center included), travel beneath the Clemente Bridge, then following Penn Avenue all the way to East Liberty.

Basically, I'd like to see a massive intermodal transit hub here initially with redevelopmentn to follow...

Just a vision -- If I somehow came into possession of about $20 billion...

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The Standard Life Building has been sold and the plan is to convert it from now-vacant student housing to apartments:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/loca...d-for-2-million-at-sheriffs-sale-698180/

Mr. Beynon, president of Beynon & Co., a Pittsburgh real estate firm, said the partnership had been looking to break into the burgeoning Downtown housing market and "felt this was a good buy" to do so.

"We're basically running out of this type of inventory Downtown," he said.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/loca...n-at-sheriffs-sale-698180/#ixzz2b9XZHEZ0

[joenicholas9]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/4480756-74/north-shore-million#axzz2b5rYpVx5

Was this the same site that the SEA was testifying about recently, or is this a separate, equally sad case?

[markson33]

Originally Posted by joenicholas9

Was this the same site that the SEA was testifying about recently, or is this a separate, equally sad case?

This is the same site.

[George Woods]

Regarding Allegheny Center, although it is doing relatively well, it's not full. Two of the apartment buildings (the most bland ones) are on North Commons. The one to the east (I believe it's building eight) is 100% empty, and has been for years, because it's sinking and unsafe. The other (seven, I think) barely has anyone in it. Someone who lived there once told me how weird it was going home to such a big building with so few inhabitants. I may be remembering it wrong, but I think he told me they were allowing it to empty out as leases expired. I can only imagine that these buildings are going to be removed in the not-too-distant future. Those lots are the ones that most feel a part of the rest of the Northside—you can see the intersection of North and Federal just across The Commons from them. And once that intersection has new restaurants and apartments, new residential in that part of AC would make a lot of sense. The other two apartment buildings do well, and now their balconies look down on the beautiful, new Buhl Park. Brainstorming is underway for a new use(s) for the library, the New Hazlett Theater is abuzz with activity, the Children's museum has done an amazing job with their buildings (and they bring a lot of life into the middle of the complex), and there's still talk of putting Ohio Street back through (and Federal, as far as Ohio). So, Allegheny Center isn't such a lost cause, I think. Not to mention, they take really good care of it. If they didn't, those 60's buildings would've practically fallen down by now. But, seriously, it's so clean and well-maintained. And, although it was a travesty that they tore down all those buildings, many of them were utterly dilapidated, and I try to remind myself that I never saw any of them, so why bother mourning them. I mean, it's been almost sixty years. This is the way the center of the Northside has been not just for my entire life, but most of my parents' generation's lives, too. Those buildings are now old themselves. And as someone who lives on the Northside and uses Allegheny Center as a walking or biking route daily, I can say that the pedestrian-only aspect of it is quite nice. I went to a flamenco concert the other day that the Allegheny City Society organized (part of a series of concerts this summer that culminates in a really neat Charlie Chaplin-themed show at the New Hazlett next Wednesday), and it was really beautiful. Lots of people showed up. Buhl planetarium was an awesome backdrop, the acoustics were great with all the buildings around us, and the park is so nice. The original intent of the designers was for the middle to be another gathering-space, and people really are using it that way.

Now, having said all this, the mall itself is a demoralizing monstrosity. And the work they've been doing FOREVER to repair the garage and the surface above it is only making it uglier. They tore down all the trees back there in that courtyard outside the mall entrances (which were the only redeeming quality of the mall), and the sheer size of the building, as Evergrey said, just "wrecks" the flow of the Northside and walls it off from Downtown (at least with regard to Federal). Thank God the mall feels so completely separated from the parts of AC that work pretty well. It really is easy to just ignore it if you never actually go near it.

But I try to remain optimistic that all of the awesome work being done on the Northside, and all of the efforts to make lemons into lemonade with Allegheny Center eventually lead to a situation in which the ownership sees that the best use for all the land the mall occupies (even better than office-tenants who pay rent) is a big mixed-use development that connects with the surrounding urban-fabric. Optimism, and acceptance of what we're working with, I (and many Northsiders have) found, is a lot less exhausting than crying about what was there half a century ago.

[PghSH22]

Sorry if this has been stated on here in the past, but I'm curious to know if there are currently strict preservation efforts/laws regarding the existing historic "rowhomes" in the Northside, and what is allowed to be built on the vacant lots? Having grown up in the South Hills, I pretty much have only been to the North Side for sporting events, and have recently been "virtually" walking around the area using Google Streetview. Im amazed by how beautiful the remaining architecture is and what seems like limitless potential for becoming the cities most atmospheric neighborhood (if not already). I had no idea that that type of a "feel" existed in Pittsburgh and hope that as much as possible is being done to preserve these buildings and the area in general. What does seem bizare are the unfortunate amounts of suburban style two story homes that exist sporatically throughout the area (such as on Pennsylvania Ave between Manhattan and Fulton Streets). It amazed me that such horrendous looking architecture was even built within the fabric of this neighborhood. Does anyone know how recent these types of homes are to the area and if they actually tore historic buildings down to build them? Or were they built on vacant lots due to decaying historic buildings being torn down? Ive seen similar types of houses built in the Hill District and sections near East Liberty and really hope that this type of development within the city is securely in Pittsburgh past, but wasn't sure and wanted to ask!

[GeneW]

PghSH22,

Portions of the Northside are designated city historic districts and are under some control by the Historic Review Commission. The four districts are Allegheny West, Manchester, Mexican War Streets and Deutchtown. Property owners in those area need to have any exterior changes to their buildings approved by the Commission to get a Certificate of Appropriateness. The specific regulations are all on that page that I linked to.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by George Woods

And, although it was a travesty that they tore down all those buildings, many of them were utterly dilapidated, and I try to remind myself that I never saw any of them, so why bother mourning them. I mean, it's been almost sixty years. This is the way the center of the Northside has been not just for my entire life, but most of my parents' generation's lives, too.

Optimism, and acceptance of what we're working with, I (and many Northsiders have) found, is a lot less exhausting than crying about what was there half a century ago.

Agreed. There is nothing to mourn at Allegheny Center. Those old buildings were dilapidated, that's what they told us.

1953 aerial of Allegheny Center


1972

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Market House (Federal and Ohio):




Boggs & Buhl Department Store:


Looking north on Federal from Allegheny Center:


Looking south on Federal (Boggs & Buhl on the right):


Similar view looking south on Federal with the Sixth Street Bridge and Downtown in the background:


Looking north (Market House in background):


W Ohio Street looking east:


Looking west (note laundry in both photos):

[photoLith]

Man, look at those horribly dilapidated buildings, they should just tear down the whole city. Allegheny Center was a tragic moronicly induced loss. Some of the grandest Victorian homes in the city were lost with its destruction.

[DKNewYork]

Originally Posted by PghSH22

Does anyone know how recent these types of homes are to the area and if they actually tore historic buildings down to build them? Or were they built on vacant lots due to decaying historic buildings being torn down?

PghSH22,

Unfortunately, historic homes were torn down to build those suburban-style houses. I recall that many of those suburban two-story and split level homes in Manchester were built in the early 70s with money that the city received from the Model Cities program, a federal program started during the Nixon administration. The federal funds were restricted in that they could only be spent on new residential construction. Renovation, and surely nothing as exotic as the renovation of homes that at that time were already 60 or 70 years old, did not qualify. So Pittsburgh, like other cities that were anxious to get federal money, agreed to and implemented the demolition and built the new homes.

I was in Manchester in the spring and saw that same neighborhood. Those houses have not aged very well at all.

[DKNewYork]

Originally Posted by George Woods

The one to the east (I believe it's building eight) is 100% empty, and has been for years, because it's sinking and unsafe.

Sinking? That is astounding. Caused by what?

Originally Posted by George Woods

Brainstorming is underway for a new use(s) for the library, the New Hazlett Theater is abuzz with activity, the Children's museum has done an amazing job with their buildings (and they bring a lot of life into the middle of the complex), and there's still talk of putting Ohio Street back through (and Federal, as far as Ohio).

I read that the Children's Museum is in talks to take over the first floor of the former library, which is better than no use at all. I still hope that a great, permanent use can be found for that building.

Is the New Hazlett used as often as it was when the Public Theatre was the sole tenant? I have no sense how often the theatre is in use.

[themaguffin]

Actually I should have clarified - I don't think that it's necessary for every building to go in Allegheny center. My main point of irritation is the main complex.