Quote:
Originally Posted by Arquitect
This is the second comment against the garages, so I feel like I have to address this issue. How are they hideous? The only way you can tell they are a garage, is by seeing it from either a plane or atop Hayden Butte. There is a great disdain towards parking garages in this blog, and almost every project that includes one is chastised. A great example of this is Roosevelt Point. Their garage occupies a minimal footprint, is flanked by retail, and they covered it with an interesting arrangement of metal louvers to not make it look like one of those horrid concrete boxes that we are used to; yet for many it is still a travesty!!! I am sorry, but Phoenix and Tempe are nowhere near being auto independent. Even most of us that would prefer not to drive have to for many reasons. Yes, light rail helps a lot, but many of us can't always chose to use it for everything. For example, if I need to drop of a set of plans for Glendale, or Scottsdale, or even Mesa, I have to drive. The idea that huge projects can either have no parking or have it all underground is ludicrous. I am a huge advocate for pedestrian developments, but the reality is that for those environments to exist, parking garages are a necessity.
Now focusing back to these garages. The project needs the parking because most of the employees will be coming from elsewhere. Even if they all wanted to move to Tempe, there isn't enough housing walking distance from here to house all of them. The garages are a necessity, not a whim.
Underground was not an option. First off, the cost would be astronomical, and it would probably end up taking money away from something up top. The lake creates a big obstacle for underground parking, since the Army Core of Engineers have very very very strict guidelines. If you notice, TCA is basically elevated on a podium facing the lake, this is because for the ACE, this area is a flood-zone, and therefore any development must be above it. If Marina Heights went underground, they would have had to build huge retention walls, as well as install extremely expensive flood mitigating mechanisms, and had to deal with the slow bureaucratic process. All this added to what already is an expensive process.
Walkability is about what is experienced at the pedestrian level, and what pedestrians will experience in this project is tons of retail, the entire bottom level is occupied by uses other than parking. So even if it is a large parking structure, it doesn't become a dead block. Furthermore, the garage is actually covered by an interesting looking facade, so even if you look up, you won't be looking at the cars. And even beyond that, the structure for the parking garage is not just used for parking, but both garages also have two of the towers set atop them. This is not a garage, it is a mix-use building.
I truly believe that when finished, this will probably be the best looking parking garage in the entire valley, and the reality is that most people will probably never know that it is a garage.
As for the issue of shade. The renderings actually show that the central spaces will actually be pretty shaded. Buildings flanking the south, east and west sides should block a lot of the sun most of the day; plus, the renderings show a lot of trees being panted. I'd argue that the design provides a pretty comfortable space. Now, along the lake is a different issue, but that is part of the city of Tempe, not of this development.
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I appreciate the additional information - I didn't know the obstacles in the way of developing underground parking, and I didn't realize the private developers were not able to contribute landscaping toward the linear park by the lake.
I wouldn't expect a development of this size to NOT include parking. However, with the Lofts next-door utilizing an underground parking garage, I assumed this was a viable alternative. What is allowing them to build one, but not Marina Heights?
Maybe I am not looking at the complete set of renderings, because the ones that I am seeing don't make it clear that there will be retail around the entire ground level. From what I see, there will be spaces on the inside corners of the garages facing into the interior of the project. When I mentioned these garages having an impact on the pedestrian experience, I am referring to visibility; shaded paths and nodes would otherwise exist if these 2 outter structures were taller, slender towers. Retail-lined paths would make the offerings visible from all perspectives (north-south from Rio to the Lake), instead of this current layout. The middle of the development is much more appropriate- though, I still want to see a perspective from Rio Salado. Look at HFL. That massive garage completely cuts off Rio Salado, and though there is retail on the one side, it is completely invisible from the street. Now imagine that x2. It will hurt the connectivity between Rio Salado, these buildings, and the lake if this project is developed similarly.
These are just concerns I am noticing from the renderings- I hope as we see more, or as the buildings are created, that my worries will subside and that care will be given to how the buildings and retail are situated to avoid something like HFL which has been completely unsuccessful in unifying lakefront development with downtown/the community. That project is essentially's Tempe's version of Arizona Center - great to get office, retail, etc. in the area, but very cut off from the existing city.
Lastly, in terms of Roosevelt Point, much of the complaining was done before they added those metal grates; for quite a while, it was a massive concrete structure that took up almost exactly the same footprint as the apartments themselves. Additionally, to say that it is wrapped in retail is a huge exaggeration. If anything, there is one retail space on the east side; otherwise, there is nothing mixed use about it. And, I am sorry, but that garage is indefensible. The nature of downtown Phx (with its overzoned land and superblocks) means that we need projects that are as dense as possible and that make the most intelligent use of the land if we are ever to get a critical mass. 6-story residential projects are already pushing it, but to dedicate half of that project's land to a one-use parking structure is just not ideal, and the purpose of this forum, I thought, was to discuss the best solutions for urban issues in our city. I am totally open to discussing the garages at Marina Heights - as I TOTALLY agree they've done a *good* job at integrating them into the development. But, I won't concede that the Roosevelt Point garage did not deserve criticism.
There have been great solutions to parking all over the Metro: Grigio Metro wrapped its garage in residential and retail, Freeport McMoran and 44 Monroe dedicated their bases to a garage, West 6th has underground parking, etc. Creating massive deadzones should never be excused here, which is what the Roosevelt Point and HFL garages did, and what I hope the Marina Heights ones don't do.
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