ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bigstick

GOOD, greedy churches.

Now they will not get a penny....

I may be a voice in the wilderness on this one but I still give the churches props for not letting themselves be stampeded into doing something they didn't want to do.

They still have their land and if the area takes off as predicted after the stadium is built, it will still be worth a pretty penny should they decide to sell it sometime in the future.

Apparently the GWCC and the Falcons are fine with the north site. Since the state already owns that site, it sounds like this is what should have happened in the first place.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I may be a voice in the wilderness on this one but I still give the churches props for not letting themselves be stampeded into doing something they didn't want to do.

They still have their land and if the area takes off as predicted after the stadium is built, it will still be worth a pretty penny should they decide to sell it sometime in the future.

Apparently the GWCC and the Falcons are fine with the north site. Since the state already owns that site, it sounds like this is what should have happened in the first place.

+1

plus i'm still hoping that this will result in a reconnection between vine city and downtown with mixed use skyscrapers. SO much potential on that site that i will be really upset if it's squandered.

[themaguffin]

Amazing. We're paying to build a stadium we absolutely do not need, but some, who decry the wast of highway building and other anti-urban planning, want a shiny new object sooooooo much that a couple of churches are "greedy" for not playing game.

[testarossa50]

I'm still holding out hope this is hardball negotiating. The church was offered, to my understanding, an order of magnitude more than what their land was worth. The church came back and wanted double. If I were in the Falcon's position, my strategy would be to walk away as definitively as possible and wait until the church comes back with a more reasonable offer.

I use that strategy all the time with cab drivers in developing countries. It's very effective. I imagine the congregationalists are extremely worried right now, as there must have been some degree of disagreement within the organization as the initial negotiations were being held.

[scania]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

Amazing. We're paying to build a stadium we absolutely do not need, but some, who decry the wast of highway building and other anti-urban planning, want a shiny new object sooooooo much that a couple of churches are "greedy" for not playing game.

DO SOME RESEARCH!!!

[scania]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

I'm still holding out hope this is hardball negotiating. The church was offered, to my understanding, an order of magnitude more than what their land was worth. The church came back and wanted double. If I were in the Falcon's position, my strategy would be to walk away as definitively as possible and wait until the church comes back with a more reasonable offer.

I use that strategy all the time with cab drivers in developing countries. It's very effective. I imagine the congregationalists are extremely worried right now, as there must have been some degree of disagreement within the organization as the initial negotiations were being held.

I hope this is true...from what I've been told, they have had a few members to leave over this issue.

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

+1

plus i'm still hoping that this will result in a reconnection between vine city and downtown with mixed use skyscrapers. SO much potential on that site that i will be really upset if it's squandered.

Bingo!!

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

plus i'm still hoping that this will result in a reconnection between vine city and downtown with mixed use skyscrapers.

Given that the stadium will probably be gone in 25 years or so, the key factor is what we're doing to strengthen the urban fabric. (Sorry to use such a hackneyed phrase but I couldn't come up with anything else off the top of my head).

It sounds like some exciting things are on the horizon. Wouldn't it be awesome if Vine City becomes the next Virginia Highland?

[trnsplnt]

Those churches were holding out for $$$$$ and that, for me, spells G.R.E.E.D. If they were truly looking to preserve their heritage or as some say stand their ground against being pushed around by the city, they would have just said so from the start, instead they chose to "play game" and in the end they lost big. They loose out on millions in investment money they could have used to re-establish themselves AND re-invest into the community taking advantage of tons of tax breaks along the way (Vine City is part of the Westside TAD). They loose out on any revenue they would be able to collect for use of their property on game days. They loose the sense of place being located next door to the Dome (the south site area stands the risk of becoming a vacuous abyss with the displacement of the Falcons, all that will remain will be the two churches).

The argument for why we need the stadium has been debated ad nauseam and its still tough to make a fair call. The consideration here, however, is if we are going to get a new stadium--located within central Atlanta--it absolutely should be integrated into the existing infrastructure, MARTA, and the many planned CAP/ADID revitalization initiatives. Sadly, the north site, 1/2 a mile from the train station, in the backyard of the GWCC and separated by a formidable bridge/rail line, misses the call.

[bigstick]

Originally Posted by scania

DO SOME RESEARCH!!!

AMEN +1

[bigstick]

Originally Posted by trnsplnt

Those churches were holding out for $$$$$ and that, for me, spells G.R.E.E.D. If they were truly looking to preserve their heritage or as some say stand their ground against being pushed around by the city, they would have just said so from the start, instead they chose to "play game" and in the end they lost big. They loose out on millions in investment money they could have used to re-establish themselves AND re-invest into the community taking advantage of tons of tax breaks along the way (Vine City is part of the Westside TAD). They loose out on any revenue they would be able to collect for use of their property on game days. They loose the sense of place being located next door to the Dome (the south site area stands the risk of becoming a vacuous abyss with the displacement of the Falcons, all that will remain will be the two churches).

The argument for why we need the stadium has been debated ad nauseam and its still tough to make a fair call. The consideration here, however, is if we are going to get a new stadium--located within central Atlanta--it absolutely should be integrated into the existing infrastructure, MARTA, and the many planned CAP/ADID revitalization initiatives. Sadly, the north site, 1/2 a mile from the train station, in the backyard of the GWCC and separated by a formidable bridge/rail line, misses the call.

Well said...The north side site is going to be good, Arthur Blank is not going to do anything half ass'd..

[Alfred E Neuman]

Originally Posted by bigstick

Well said...The north side site is going to be good, Arthur Blank is not going to do anything half ass'd..

Blank is still being open to negotiations con't, and the 45 mil set aside for downtown/neighborhood reconnection has been set aside regardless of final site. Blank's name and legacy is on this entire endeavor, and don't expect seeing him screw it up. Shalom

[joecool]

Did they ever decide on final design? When will construction begin?

I too hope this brings some tower construction to the area.

[oldpainless]

Originally Posted by arjay57

They still have their land and if the area takes off as predicted after the stadium is built, it will still be worth a pretty penny should they decide to sell it sometime in the future.

Wait, what makes you think the Vine City area next to the Dome will take off? The presence of a 70,000 seat football stadium didn't do much for the wellbeing of that community, so why would a newer stadium be the catalyst for a Vine City renaissance? The Vine City area and community west of the Dome is and will be an economically downtrodden, crime-ridden area for years to come. And no amount of community investment will change that because history has proven otherwise. Not trying to be a pessimist - just trying to be real.

[bigstick]

Originally Posted by oldpainless

Wait, what makes you think the Vine City area next to the Dome will take off? The presence of a 70,000 seat football stadium didn't do much for the wellbeing of that community, so why would a newer stadium be the catalyst for a Vine City renaissance? The Vine City area and community west of the Dome is and will be an economically downtrodden, crime-ridden area for years to come. And no amount of community investment will change that because history has proven otherwise. Not trying to be a pessimist - just trying to be real.

Well maybe the new construction will be a new catalyst. The current dome was built pre Olympics and not much zest for growth was evident anywhere in that area then.......

[trainiac]

Originally Posted by scania

Come on dude, read. My point is that Cox is where they want to be...it's not a huge miss for them. It's not any of our companies, its like saying a company that moves or builds in Nashville is a huge miss because they didn't select Downtown Atlanta.

Well, by all rights, the Cox headquarters should be in Ohio At least we have them in our metro area! Did anyone read Kessler's article about trying to walk to lunch? Interesting

http://dunwoodynorth.blogspot.com/2013/07/adventures-of-perimeter-pedestrian-in.html

I worked at Ravinia 3 in the late 90's and it sounds like it's gotten quite a bit better for walking since then. I bet a bunch of the AJC folks miss Rosa's and Reuben's downtown

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by joecool

Did they ever decide on final design?

No. The City Council approved funding without seeing a design, without deciding the location, and without seeing any studies on transit use or neighborhood impact.

[BunkyWay]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Exactly. I used to work for a company that briefly flirted with the idea of moving from Norcross to Downtown. The pushback from employees was so strong, they did a mapping survey and promised to settle in the geographic center of where everyone lived. They are now on Brown Rd at Sugarloaf Pkwy in North Central Gwinnett.

There are a lot of folks that think the center of gravity for the metro is now at 400 & 285. Not sure if I agree or not, but it is definitely moving north.

I don't think the center has reached Perimeter Center...yet. I'd define Buckhead () as the region's center, with Midtown and Downtown basically edge cities.

Downtown should not be focusing on corporate jobs for vitality...that train left the station long ago. Even the law firms left for greener pastures in Midtown (how long until they find new digs in Buckhead?).

The hope for a vibrant Downtown lies with Georgia State and the convention industry.

[BunkyWay]

Originally Posted by trainiac

Well, by all rights, the Cox headquarters should be in Ohio At least we have them in our metro area! Did anyone read Kessler's article about trying to walk to lunch? Interesting

http://dunwoodynorth.blogspot.com/2013/07/adventures-of-perimeter-pedestrian-in.html

I worked at Ravinia 3 in the late 90's and it sounds like it's gotten quite a bit better for walking since then. I bet a bunch of the AJC folks miss Rosa's and Reuben's downtown

What, all ten of them?

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by oldpainless

Wait, what makes you think the Vine City area next to the Dome will take off? The presence of a 70,000 seat football stadium didn't do much for the wellbeing of that community, so why would a newer stadium be the catalyst for a Vine City renaissance? The Vine City area and community west of the Dome is and will be an economically downtrodden, crime-ridden area for years to come. And no amount of community investment will change that because history has proven otherwise. Not trying to be a pessimist - just trying to be real.

Well, I started off thinking this project would be hard on Vine City. Historically speaking the neighborhoods near our stadiums have not fared well.

However, I was taken to task by a number of folks who said the city needed the stadium and that it would revitalize the area. So I have tried to take a more positive approach.

I read somewhere (the Atlanta Business Chronicle?) that developers were making plans to in there in a major way.