Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[TransitFreak]

Oh man, family day travel on Sundays and holidays gone too...that sucks the big one...guess they found their extra revenues...assuming people still use transit on Sunday

[DKaz]

Not looking forward to paying $170 a month, up from the $127.50 a month I pay right now. My company tops up the discount to make it a total of 25% savings... Sigh.

First world problems...

[nname]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Not looking forward to paying $170 a month, up from the $127.50 a month I pay right now. My company tops up the discount to make it a total of 25% savings... Sigh.

First world problems...

Maybe your company could end up compensating 10% of whatever value you spent on your Compass Card?

[Waders]

The Employee Pass is wonderful as it is care free. Some companies actually pay the full cost of the pass for their employees as part of the taxable benefit.
With the Compass card, one have to remember to reload the card frequently or have to register to enable automatic reload. :-(

[Ehlun]

Originally Posted by TransitFreak

Oh man, family day travel on Sundays and holidays gone too...that sucks the big one...guess they found their extra revenues...assuming people still use transit on Sunday

The family thing just can't be done with the faregates. I think that's the main reason for phasing it out.

Instead of saying FareSavers would be eliminated, TransLink probably should have said FareSavers tickets would become a 'fare product' on the Compass Card. Seems to be a misconception already that TransLink is eliminating discounts.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Waders

The Employee Pass is wonderful as it is care free. Some companies actually pay the full cost of the pass for their employees as part of the taxable benefit.
With the Compass card, one have to remember to reload the card frequently or have to register to enable automatic reload. :-(

I don't think so. I had read that the monthly pass system will still be in place IE you can buy a "month pass" for a set fee that flags your card for that month. The automatic reload simply reloads at the end of the month, but it won't charge you for individual trips if you're under the monthly pass program. That means no needing to load it up constantly or getting charged extra.

It's very similar to the pass today just electronic. Unless that has completely changed recently but that was the explanation I was given in the past and it still reads that way on their web site.

As for the fare savers, that was pretty much a for sure thing when they said the compass cards will be in essence the fare saver. If you charge up a compass card your per-trip cost is cheaper than if you paid cash at the station for each trip individually. Employee thing, I dunno was never affected by that. My wife takes the train every day to work and has to pay full price for a 3 zone so I don't lose a lot of sympathy to those being subsidized by translink. If your work subsidizes that's awesome, but translink is in it to pay for the system, I'm all for everyone paying fair amount.

Meh then again I am of the opinion concession fares for students should only be for high school students and post secondary students should pay full price. I've yet to hear a compelling argument as to why someone doing their Master's Degree at UBC should ride transit cheaper than a mother going to work to feed her kids. High school students and less sure. Heck even children I'm fine with. But post secondary students are adults. Pay full rate. That would probably boost revenue by at least $1 million a month more alone.

But I'd never win that argument in the court of public opinion I'd imagine.

[Millennium2002]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Meh then again I am of the opinion concession fares for students should only be for high school students and post secondary students should pay full price. I've yet to hear a compelling argument as to why someone doing their Master's Degree at UBC should ride transit cheaper than a mother going to work to feed her kids. High school students and less sure. Heck even children I'm fine with. But post secondary students are adults. Pay full rate. That would probably boost revenue by at least $1 million a month more alone.

But I'd never win that argument in the court of public opinion I'd imagine.

Hey, I hear you, and I'm a student. That's something that I've been noting and emphasizing for a long time. Heck, the current and future U-Pass rates will remain about $10 cheaper than the price that a high school student has to pay, which frankly feels ridiculous.
-

[WarrenC12]

The UPass is still an a program you can't opt out of right?

Does anybody know what the overall utilization of the UPass is? It might be "too cheap" for those who use it, but the overall cost/revenue to Translink might be closer to that of a regular 3 zone pass holder.

I agree with the Grad Student vs. Single mom argument. It is silly. And this comes from somebody likely in a grad program in 2014...

[st7860]

that aforementioned single mother that is working can get a tax deduction on purchase of transit passes.

[nname]

Originally Posted by jhausner

As for the fare savers, that was pretty much a for sure thing when they said the compass cards will be in essence the fare saver. If you charge up a compass card your per-trip cost is cheaper than if you paid cash at the station for each trip individually. Employee thing, I dunno was never affected by that. My wife takes the train every day to work and has to pay full price for a 3 zone so I don't lose a lot of sympathy to those being subsidized by translink. If your work subsidizes that's awesome, but translink is in it to pay for the system, I'm all for everyone paying fair amount.

Well, all employee have time offs and vacations. Right now, most people in the program don't care about the months they're away and stay in the program anyways. But when the program goes away, they'll only buy monthly pass during the months they need the most, and pay by single trip during other times. Its much more hassle for the user, but I'm not sure many will actually pay more (without company subsidization, that is). At least for me, I figure I can actually save about $15-$40 per year without the program - if I use up all my vacation, that is.

Originally Posted by jhausner

Meh then again I am of the opinion concession fares for students should only be for high school students and post secondary students should pay full price. I've yet to hear a compelling argument as to why someone doing their Master's Degree at UBC should ride transit cheaper than a mother going to work to feed her kids. High school students and less sure. Heck even children I'm fine with. But post secondary students are adults. Pay full rate. That would probably boost revenue by at least $1 million a month more alone.

Well, at least for the PhD students I met in my school, they basically cannot work through the entire 5-6 years program (there's no time, and their professor won't allow it either). Basically they need to make a living out of the $15k/year or so given by the professor. Most of them either going directly from Bachelor and Masters (ie. never worked before and not much saving), or already married (have kids to feed). I'm not sure if it is any easier than single mom before they graduates...

At least during my Masters, I did live within a budget of $12k/year, and I'm glad that I got the pass...

[st7860]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Hey, I hear you, and I'm a student. That's something that I've been noting and emphasizing for a long time. Heck, the current and future U-Pass rates will remain about $10 cheaper than the price that a high school student has to pay, which frankly feels ridiculous.
-

The thought just occured to me. Why even bother having a upass program? Instead allow university students who want to take transit to use a conession farecard. This will eliminate the overhead and administration costs.

[nname]

Originally Posted by st7860

The thought just occured to me. Why even bother having a upass program? Instead allow university students who want to take transit to use a conession farecard. This will eliminate the overhead and administration costs.

That will allow even more fare cheats.

They do not collect the student card back from me after graduation. Does not mean I get to use concession fare card for life?

[DKaz]

I survived fine before UPass. Year one I had a one zone bus pass which acted as a three zone with the student card sticker... Fast Tracks? I lived near Metrotown and just had to bus down to BCIT but it was still useful for going downtown after school or something. Year two I lived off Faresavers since I was a 15 minute walk from BCIT and just needed to go bus to work on the weekend.

[DKaz]

Since TVMs can issue "one time use" Compass Cards, they should be able to issue Photo ID UPass Compass Cards that expire monthly? Only problem is that fare checks are probably going away...

[nname]

I remember hearing that the upass will be linked directly to the student card so it will become invalid immediately when the student become ineligible. No more monthly renewal would be required.

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Since TVMs can issue "one time use" Compass Cards, they should be able to issue Photo ID UPass Compass Cards that expire monthly? Only problem is that fare checks are probably going away...

What makes you say that? Fare checks are done in other cities with smart cards. In Seattle, fare checkers have an electronic device that reads the smart card - so it can tell if you tapped in for example.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by Tfreder

You're right, the 19 runs less frequently than the 10. However, according to ridership data from 2012, the 19 has 800,000 more riders annually.

So if the 19 uses less buses + has more more riders, wouldn't that make it more crowded on buses?

The 19 has three core riders, those who use it as a local service between Metrotown and Main St. Science World Station, those who ride it all the way downtown because they prefer a transferless trip, and those who get on downtown and go to Stanley Park, so you get a route that's pretty busy from end to end. The most crowded section of the 19 route by far is between Stanley Park and downtown. The second most crowded is Main St. Science World Station east.

Originally Posted by nname

I remember hearing that the upass will be linked directly to the student card so it will become invalid immediately when the student become ineligible. No more monthly renewal would be required.

Originally Posted by lightrail

What makes you say that? Fare checks are done in other cities with smart cards. In Seattle, fare checkers have an electronic device that reads the smart card - so it can tell if you tapped in for example.

Good to know!

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Meh then again I am of the opinion concession fares for students should only be for high school students and post secondary students should pay full price. I've yet to hear a compelling argument as to why someone doing their Master's Degree at UBC should ride transit cheaper than a mother going to work to feed her kids. High school students and less sure. Heck even children I'm fine with. But post secondary students are adults. Pay full rate. That would probably boost revenue by at least $1 million a month more alone.

Why don't we take a page out of Europe's book and give discounted rates for everyone up to the age of 24, school or not!

The adult can get subsidies in the form of tax credits and low income bus passes.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by st7860

that aforementioned single mother that is working can get a tax deduction on purchase of transit passes.

As can the student. Moot point.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by nname

Well, all employee have time offs and vacations. Right now, most people in the program don't care about the months they're away and stay in the program anyways. But when the program goes away, they'll only buy monthly pass during the months they need the most, and pay by single trip during other times. Its much more hassle for the user, but I'm not sure many will actually pay more (without company subsidization, that is). At least for me, I figure I can actually save about $15-$40 per year without the program - if I use up all my vacation, that is.

Good point. I guess it largely depends on how the user uses transit. My wife for example does use it to commute to and from work, but she also uses transit quite a lot outside of work or even during her work day to get around downtown and such or jump Canada Line to Richmond and the likes. So she more than uses her 3 zone pass each month even I you factor in vacation and days off.

But definitely for someone that goes to and from and say live in Langley so the rest of their out of work time is spent in a car when they go anywhere, I'd agree it starts to become more expensive and the alternative is more of a problem.

Well, at least for the PhD students I met in my school, they basically cannot work through the entire 5-6 years program (there's no time, and their professor won't allow it either). Basically they need to make a living out of the $15k/year or so given by the professor. Most of them either going directly from Bachelor and Masters (ie. never worked before and not much saving), or already married (have kids to feed). I'm not sure if it is any easier than single mom before they graduates...

At least during my Masters, I did live within a budget of $12k/year, and I'm glad that I got the pass...

People can make it work. It sucks I know but if a student paying full price for transit is going to make or break things, they need to go live in Africa and learn what real poverty is, not to mention minor in economics and budgeting. And as was mentioned, U-pass holders pay $35 a month vs a high school student who has to pay $51 a month.... makes total sense...

But from a money standpoint, U-Pass = $420 a year vs 1 zone @ $1092 and 3 zone @ $2040. So you have a spread of $672 to $1672 per year or $56 to $140 a month.

I do agree it helps, but let's face it, most people going to UBC/SFU doing degrees aren't living on scraps. They can afford the extra amount. Heck even a boost to $51 would be some extra cash or just make the U-Pass a universal 1-zone for all zones. So $91 for 3 zones across the board like they do with concession ($51 for zone 1-3) if it is such a stretch.

Choice people make going to school unfortunately. Sometimes adults need to make sacrifices.