Provo MSA Development Thread - Page 118

Future Mayor · #**2341** Posted **Jul 12, 2013, 9:29 PM**

From looking at page 25 of the pdf, unfortunately it looks like a giant sea of asphalt with not a whole lot of green space, except for the portion that runs from the SE to the NW through the middle of the development. While I don't love it, at least they are placing some buildings at the road, so it will hide the asphalt sea just a little bit.

delts145 · #**2342** Posted **Jul 12, 2013, 11:09 PM**

It looks like it's pretty much "The Meadows South"

Deek1978 · #**2343** Posted **Jul 15, 2013, 2:02 PM**

While I do sympathize the fact there is a lot of parking, please remember that as of yet, there isn't a very good method of getting to Spanish Fork, other than car. While even the Meadows in A.F./ Lehi doesn't really have rail nearby either and suffers from a sizable parking area, Canyon Creek in Spanish Fork will be enticing people from Provo to Santaquin. There must be parking for them as other than UTA buses, there isn't a viable form of mass transit to the area. My only hope would be that a possible future Front Runner stop be placed nearby, should they ever extend the line.

One other thing, I sent a message to Longhorn Steakhouse to see if rumors that I've been hearing are true. . . here's the message that I received back; "It's too early for us to confirm or deny. We suggest that you stay tuned to our FAQ page. All of our upcoming restaurants are posted here: https://www.longhornsteakhouse.com/about/faq.asp

I thought that was pretty cool. . . not confirming anything, but also not saying "At the moment we have no plans"

delts145 · #**2344** Posted **Jul 15, 2013, 3:47 PM**

Hey Deek, I will be the first to admit that I was a regular patron of The Meadows. It pretty much had just about everything I needed within convenient reach. I also think that The Meadows could easily be redeveloped in the future into a much more dense urban experience as the demand arises. I'm glad that Spanish Fork is getting a much needed shopping alternative, without having to travel into Provo/Orem.

The one complaint I have about American Fork is it's failure to focus more attention on it's inner core. There have been a few stabs by a few noble souls to reestablish the historic core, but nothing of real substance. There's so much potential with American Fork's historic Main.

As far as the near future, I'm hoping they'll finally be able to restore and reuse the old Harrington School. That's a real gem that has languished for decades now. The recent restoration of the neighboring, Historic City Hall was a very good sign.

Spanish Fork has a beautiful Old Main. I'd like to see it restored and built up further someday. Actually as a whole, I think Spanish Fork's Old Main is in much better shape than American Forks.

Future Mayor · #**2345** Posted **Jul 15, 2013, 7:01 PM**

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand that there is no rail/transit service to the area and that parking lots are necessary. I think what I probably meant is that I'm sure the rental market in Spanish Fork is in great demand, just as it is along most of the Wasatch Front, so while they are building a shopping center with stores that will serve the needs of SF residence, why not go ahead and built some apartments in the mix. For instance build the buildings that face the street 2-4 stories tall, with residential and office space in there.

I understand that not everything can be served by transit, but everything doesn't have to be single use either.

Deek1978 · #**2346** Posted **Jul 15, 2013, 7:29 PM**

I definitely agree that they should add apartments to the mix. However, I'm more excited about my property values increasing. Or at least, the prospect of my property increasing. My wife and I are hoping to be able to move within 5 years. . . it'll be nice to get more than we paid for the house.

Here's to hoping!

delts145 · #**2347** Posted **Jul 20, 2013, 3:51 PM**

Springville City Center

70,000 s.f. Municipal offices and meetingrooms, courtrooms, and a Police Station

* CRSA with JRCA @ http://www.crsa-us.com/projects/government.php

http://www.crsa-us.com

Orlando · #**2348** Posted **Jul 20, 2013, 9:03 PM**

why oh why do we have to recreate Italian medieval architecture in 2013 in smallville, USA?!! It's idiotic and so regressive. We have no context for that style anywhere remotely close to it, and why does an Italian tower and style evoke civic justice??!! Feudal lords ruled the day, and Italian nobility and the church had the money and power to evoke strength through architecture. I cringe anytime old forms of architecture like this recreated and misappropriated. Albeit, the interior is very handsome!

Wasatch_One · #**2349** Posted **Jul 20, 2013, 11:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orlando

why oh why do we have to recreate Italian medieval architecture in 2013 in smallville, USA?!! It's idiotic and so regressive. We have no context for that style anywhere remotely close to it, and why does an Italian tower and style evoke civic justice??!! Feudal lords ruled the day, and Italian nobility and the church had the money and power to evoke strength through architecture. I cringe anytime old forms of architecture like this recreated and misappropriated. Albeit, the interior is very handsome!

Yeah, it is idiotic and so regressive. We definitely have no context for this style anywhere in Utah remotely close to the Italianate/Romanesque styling Springville was looking to recreate.... wait, wait, actually i think we may... oh yes, we do

If you're familiar with architecture in Utah (and most of the US in the mid to late 1800's) this style was very popular and I like that Springville looked to a more classic architectural style for its smallville USA city offices. Obviously not near as ornate as the Richardson Romanesque of the City County bldg, however, its will age better than much of the uninspired garbage that many cities developed over the past few decades.

A few other examples of this architectural styling in Utah:

Orlando · #**2350** Posted **Jul 21, 2013, 3:18 AM**

Nice try Wasatch One. Still terrible examples, because of several reasons:
1). The number one reason that I will always hammer home, is that it is regressive to revert to old forms and styles of architectureAll of those were built pre-modern times. We are in the 21st century!!!!!!!!! Why do we need to revert to architectural styles of the past? They had different meanings and functions and structural load bearing issues that they used back then. To design something of that type if architecture is fake and false. To design and build something like that is cowardice and ignorant nostalgia. It show a lack of confidence in today and the future. It shows that their is fear of progressiveness.
2) your examples are all built pre-modern times when stone load bearing structures were the norm and the style was a cluttered mix of different classical styles. There may be one semi- Italian classical architectural example in the mix.
3) springville has none such classical buildings nearby to have a context to draw from.

Orlando · #**2351** Posted **Jul 21, 2013, 3:28 AM**

Oops

Future Mayor · #**2352** Posted **Jul 21, 2013, 5:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orlando

3) springville has none such classical buildings nearby to have a context to draw from.

Maybe it's just me, but it sure does look like the old Springville High School has that context that city hall could have drawn from.

Orlando · #**2353** Posted **Jul 21, 2013, 7:03 PM**

That's actually a good example. I stand corrected in regards to my statement about there being no context in Springville to draw from. My last post was more of a reactionary post, and I knew that my hasty statement might come back against me. My bad.

Regardless, I still stand by my #1 reason to never do fake historic achitecture. I know many of you do not like or understand why I call it fake. So, I will recopy my previous explanation here:

1). The number one reason that I will always hammer home, is that it is regressive to revert to old forms and styles of architectureAll of those were built pre-modern times. We are in the 21st century!!!!!!!!! Why do we need to revert to architectural styles of the past? They had different meanings and functions and structural load bearing issues that they used back then. To design something of that type of architecture is fake and false. To design and build something like that is cowardice and ignorant nostalgia. It show a lack of confidence in today and the future. It shows that their is fear of progressiveness.
2) your examples are all built pre-modern times when stone load bearing structures were the norm and the style was a cluttered mix of different classical styles

DMTower · #**2354** Posted **Jul 21, 2013, 7:25 PM**

Orlando, why is it so wrong to pay homage to classical architectural styles? Is there an expiration date on them? If so, who decided? I'm a designer by trade, and nowhere in my discipline is there a rule that we can't draw from history when creating new designs. Why is architectural design different? Sure, there are plenty of great modern styles that we desperately need here in Utah... but why can't we have both? It sounds like you had a professor with some very strong biases on this topic.

Stenar · #**2355** Posted **Jul 21, 2013, 8:41 PM**

I LOVE Modern architecture, but I don't need to see it everywhere. In fact, I think I would hate to see only Modern/Post-Modern architecture everywhere. We need the warmth of stone, arches, etc. every once in a while.

Throughout history, we have always reverted to historic styles.

I like a good historic recreation. If done well, they don't look fake, even though you think all historic styles are fake today.

I LOVE the new Holladay fire station, for example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orlando

That's actually a good example. I stand corrected in regards to my statement about there being no context in Springville to draw from. My last post was more of a reactionary post, and I knew that hasty statement might come back against me.

Regardless, I still stand by my #1 reason to never do fake historic. Architecture. I know many if you do not like or understand why I call it fake. So, I will recopy my previous explanation here:

1). The number one reason that I will always hammer home, is that it is regressive to revert to old forms and styles of architectureAll of those were built pre-modern times. We are in the 21st century!!!!!!!!! Why do we need to revert to architectural styles of the past? They had different meanings and functions and structural load bearing issues that they used back then. To design something of that type if architecture is fake and false. To design and build something like that is cowardice and ignorant nostalgia. It show a lack of confidence in today and the future. It shows that their is fear of progressiveness.
2) your examples are all built pre-modern times when stone load bearing structures were the norm and the style was a cluttered mix of different classical styles

Bob The Builder · #**2356** Posted **Jul 21, 2013, 11:37 PM**

Its coming along.......

Wasatch_One · #**2357** Posted **Jul 22, 2013, 7:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orlando

Nice try Wasatch One. Still terrible examples, because of several reasons:

Nice try?

I question how much you really know about architectural style in general based on your commentary.

Most of the remarkable historic structures we have here in the United States are revivalist in nature as it is, based on thousands of years of Roman/Italian, Greek, French, Spanish & English influence.

We, as a country are very new in terms of world timelines. Most of our heritage is borrowed from the millions of immigrants who traveled here and brought along a piece of their former homes. Architecture is cyclical with many revivalism periods. Yes, we do have contemporary and modern cycles as well, but to disregard thousands of years of history as faux is fairly amateur in one's understanding.

Like DMTower and Stenar, I appreciate a great modern structure (like SL's new public safety bldg or the SL library, though even it combines contemporary w/ classic features) ...but in my opinion, varied styling is always best. A well done "recreation" will age well and will probably be admired 50+ years down the line as people have this same ongoing debate we have delved into today.

tygr · #**2358** Posted **Jul 22, 2013, 7:58 PM**

Good news or bad news—you decide.

I met with a manager of a Utah County Walmart store this weekend and asked about the Spanish Fork store (I'll come back to that one).

This person indicated that Walmart has immediate plans to build two Neighborhood Markets in Provo (Center St. west of I-15) and American Fork (location unknown) and three of their new Walmart on Campus store concepts adjacent to BYU, U of U, and Weber.

In regards to Spanish Fork, it was revealed the Springville store was built to do ~30% less business than it is currently doing. They said it would cost about the same to expand the current store than it would cost to build another store nearby.

It was also said that there is a hiccup in building the Spanish Fork store because of water table issues. The Costco site had similar problems. (If that's the case, I'm guessing it will be a challenge to build out all of Canyon Creek for the same reason.)

SLC Projects · #**2359** Posted **Jul 22, 2013, 8:46 PM**

Having Walmarts popping up everywhere is never a good thing. S.F. Is better off with out it.

delts145 · #**2360** Posted **Jul 24, 2013, 12:33 PM**

Cool find Future Mayor. I can see where that old high school was at one type a very handsome structure. I'm assuming that this particular picture shows the unfortunate filling in of former windows and probably other tacky remodels.

Infact, if executed correctly that old model would serve as a beautiful design for a new School in the Springville area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Maybe it's just me, but it sure does look like the old Springville High School has that context that city hall could have drawn from.