Halifax Stadium Discussion

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

I have been wondering about the possibility of building a stadium on one of the Commons and in exchange when we tear down the VG that land could revert to parkland to replace the land where we would put the stadium.
Fenwick, would it fit between Cogswell and Bell Rd ?

That is an interesting idea. In my opinion, the Commons or Wanderers Park would be ideal for a stadium. I think that a municipal stadium is a type of use that the Commons is meant for, just as the skating oval was built on the Commons.

To give an idea of the space required, I downloaded 3D models of the Princeton Stadium, which was drawn by Luke Potenza, onto the Commons and Wanderers Grounds. The Princeton Stadium was built for 45 million dollars in 1997 (but more in today's dollars) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princeton_University_Stadium . Some minor modifications would be required for the longer CFL field to fit, and for it to fit on the two different Halifax sites.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I think that a municipal stadium is a type of use that the Commons is meant for, just as the skating oval was built on the Commons.

I agree. I also think that a central location makes more sense from a regional planning perspective. We keep hearing about how the city missed its 25% infill target, but then few people question plans to put major infrastructure or businesses out in greenfield areas. If the stadium were in the core it would be more accessible to visitors and it would result in less car traffic. It would complement the other amenities nearby and could be used to help build a destination district with lots of spinoff effects.

The stadium wouldn't fit very well with the current street alignments but they can be changed. That being said, it's unfortunate how developments like Citadel High have used so much land or have been placed haphazardly without a long-term plan for the area. The Commons have not been well-managed.

[W.Sobchak]

What About converting the Canada games field into a cricket/football grounds, and putting it at the Willow tree? It would strengthen that corner, and connect it to the oval so to speak, along cogswell.

Better than the "public art"/bleachers at the corner now.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think it all depends on the details of the arrangement and what the stadium looks like. If the stadium is reasonable and there are many partners then it could be a great deal, but it could also be a big waste of money.

In ANS an article mentioned that taxes had to be raised by 4.5% in Regina to fund the stadium. I could be wrong, but it looked to me like they meant that was the total increase on all municipal taxes for a long period of time, which to me seems completely unreasonable. Regina is a smaller city though (fewer taxpayers regardless of what the attendance is like) and I think a stadium in Halifax would have to be simpler and cheaper to start out with.

The money-sink potential is very real. In addition to this Regina example, Edmonton is planning to use $45 million in provincial money targeted to urban infrastructure for their new stadium, plus ticket taxes and a loan from a private developer. All of this is justified on the basis that it will revitalize the near-downtown site it will be built on--but y'know how that often works out.

[q12]

http://www.halifaxnewsnet.ca/Blog-Article/b/24645/Ricks-Rants-Friday-July-12th2013

A luncheon three weeks ago in Toronto has tongues a wagging in Halifax about the Canadian Football League. Mayor Mike Savage had lunch with the president and the commissioner of the CFL. Commissioner Mark Cohon describes it as a get to know one another meal. He says the league certainly wants to expand east but if Halifax wants a franchise it's going to have to get a stadium first. I'm told the stadium issue is now before the provincial government. It's been described to me as a hot file, indicating something may be in the works though Cohon and the mayor both told me they have had no recent conversations with the premier about a stadium. Still, there seems to be something in the wind right now that could one day see Halifax with a multi-purpose stadium and a CFL franchise. Stay tuned.

CFL looking at expanding east, Halifax possible destination
Scott MacIntosh Jul 12, 2013 07:44:30 AM

The Canadian Football League in Halifax has long been a dream of both the city and the league and commissioner Mark Cohon says that dream could be getting closer to reality.

Reports surfaced last week of a meeting between Cohon and HRM mayor Mike Savage.

Read more here: http://www.news957.com/2013/07/12/cfl-looking-at-expanding-east-halifax-possible-destination/

[BravoZulu]

^^^ That sounds promising

Here's hoping, there's a level of energy and civic pride that comes with professional sports. The Moosehead's playoff run to the memorial cup generated a certain degree of this but pro level sports seem to really bring it out. Its something that's been missing from Halifax for far too long

[fenwick16]

Thanks for the information q12. If the NDP actually acts on this then it would probably boost their popularity in the Halifax area and possibly all of Nova Scotia. Having lived in the Halifax area and rural Nova Scotia, I believe that people in rural Nova Scotia would also support a CFL team in the Halifax area.

The biggest question that enters my mind is which provincial government will get behind it; the current one or the next one?

[c-way-dude]

http://theglobeandmail.com/sports/footba...m-in-atlantic-provinces/article13328189/

[someone123]

Time will tell how this will turn out but I like how the new mayor has already taken pretty clear positions on a couple of issues. Hopefully he will focus on projects like this one, Cogswell, and transit, while leaving local issues to the councillors. One of the big problems with Peter Kelly was that he didn't tend to take clear positions or strongly advocate for particular issues. Unsurprisingly, very little got done during his long tenure.

Another interesting aspect of this is how the mayor has talked about using the stadium as a way to invest in and improve a part of the city. Traditionally, HRM has been completely clueless about this and new infrastructure has been used either to buy votes in districts or it has gone wherever land is cheapest, regardless of the hidden costs. If it is at all possible, I really think a stadium should go on the peninsula or at least to an underused inner suburban area. Putting it out by the airport or in an office park would be a horrible mistake.

[ILoveHalifax]

I like that Mayor Savage flew to Toronto for a meeting. Shows some interest.

I would like that we build on the Common and replace that Common parkland when the VG comes down. It would spread the open spaces around a bit.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

Another interesting aspect of this is how the mayor has talked about using the stadium as a way to invest in and improve a part of the city. Traditionally, HRM has been completely clueless about this and new infrastructure has been used either to buy votes in districts or it has gone wherever land is cheapest, regardless of the hidden costs. If it is at all possible, I really think a stadium should go on the peninsula or at least to an underused inner suburban area. Putting it out by the airport or in an office park would be a horrible mistake.

HUGE mistake. The whole argument for putting it in Moncton, of course, is that while the immediate population is smaller, it's it's more centrally located in the region. (I would be interested to see a comparison of the number of people living withing a one-hour and two-hour drive of either city, incidentally).

But I can imagine someone contesting that position by making the case that it should be placed out in the western suburbs to make it more driveable for people living elsewhere in NS/NB. I would hope it's used as a way to generate investment and revenue in the city--I really hope it doesn't become some 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 match wherein Moncton/Halifax and NB/NS try to outdo one another in the spending of city and provincial revenues to attract it to their respective locations.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I would be interested to see a comparison of the number of people living withing a one-hour and two-hour drive of either city, incidentally).

People have posted the 1/2/3 hour radius tables on here a few times. They are interesting but of questionable value. A person living 10 minutes from a stadium is likely to buy far more tickets to events than somebody living 2 hours away, all else being equal. Also, the most frequently quoted Moncton numbers tend to include Halifax, which is a little strange if they're to be used as an argument for putting something there instead of Halifax. The same kind of logic could be applied to Ontario to show that Kitchener is more central than downtown Toronto.

A lot of arguments for putting a stadium out by a highway somewhere have the same half-baked feel. The assumption that a highway means there won't be traffic problems is obviously not true. I have also heard the argument that a suburban location is more practical because more people live in the suburbs. This idea falls apart pretty quickly; if you put a stadium in suburban Halifax or suburban Dartmouth people on the other side of the city have to travel quite far and possibly cross the bridges. Sites north of the city meanwhile are far away from 80% or more of the population, and all of the suburban sites are boring and inconvenient for visitors. The most "central" locations are clearly on the peninsula.

[q12]

Mayor: More outdoor stadium talk for Halifax coming very soon

Updated: July 22, 2013 | 5:16 pm

By Ruth Davenport

Read the story here: http://metronews.ca/news/halifax/745474/...adium-talk-for-halifax-coming-very-soon/

[ILoveHalifax]

Mike Savage was on with Jordi Morgan today, to talk about a stadium. Did anybody hear anything?

[Keith P.]

I cannot abide listening to Morgan. He is so relentlessly right-wing, with the same old voices on there over and over again. They should rename it the Jamie Baillie show since it seems he is on there every day, and there is no more unlikable political personality (assuming he has one) than Baillie. And if he isn't on there it is the even more unlikable Kevin Lacey of the so-called Canadian Taxpayers Federation, which is simply a front for the extreme right-wingers who were bounced out of the Tory party. Lacey seems to believe govt should spend nothing on anything and is the sponsor of numerous absurd positions.

So, I can well imagine the tone of any stadium discussion was "don't".

[Jstaleness]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I cannot abide listening to Morgan. He is so relentlessly right-wing, with the same old voices on there over and over again. They should rename it the Jamie Baillie show since it seems he is on there every day, and there is no more unlikable political personality (assuming he has one) than Baillie. And if he isn't on there it is the even more unlikable Kevin Lacey of the so-called Canadian Taxpayers Federation, which is simply a front for the extreme right-wingers who were bounced out of the Tory party. Lacey seems to believe govt should spend nothing on anything and is the sponsor of numerous absurd positions.

So, I can well imagine the tone of any stadium discussion was "don't".

I'm assuming you didn't hear anything then? lol

[someone123]

I don't know who Jordi Morgan is but Keith P. is right about the CTF.

[q12]

Mayor Mike Savage talks about the CFL in Halifax on Global Halifax this morning:

http://globalnews.ca/video/743285/cfl-in-the-maritimes

[Empire]

Originally Posted by q12

Mayor Mike Savage talks about the CFL in Halifax on Global Halifax this morning:

http://globalnews.ca/video/743285/cfl-in-the-maritimes

How about the Halifax Loyalists?

[Nifta]

How about the Halifax Nimbys? With a name like that we should get support from the Heritage Trust on the stadium plans, especially if made in a faux-heritage style.