TriMet/Metro Southwest Corridor Planning (Portland to Bridgeport Village)

[zilfondel]

Light rail in the Portland area has survived and has been obviously been very successful politically with the expansion plans that have occurred over the past 10 years.

This is why electing leaders who can promote these projects are critical. There will always be naysayers and NIMBYs. I think the current crop of anti-transit is purely related to the tea party & national politics.

[tworivers]

There will always be naysayers and NIMBYs. I think the current crop of anti-transit is purely related to the tea party & national politics.

I think this is mostly to blame, yes, but I think it is also related to the sort of stage that we're in as a city. I'm in Barcelona right now and it's hard not to think about Portland as a bit of a grumbling, narcissistic adolescent. Kind of makes sense in that light that there is a backlash against our mass transit improvements, bike "amenities" (to quote to the enlightened local media), and attempts at urban planning...particularly outside of the center of town.

[Grantenfuego]

Bad news.

http://www.oregonlive.com/tigard/index.ssf/2012/08/tigard_city_council_approves_c_1.html

Tigard City Council unanimously approved a resolution at Tuesday night's meeting that will put a charter amendment regarding light rail construction before voters this fall.

The amendment would require a public vote prior to imposing new local taxes or fees to fund light rail construction and would expire after 10 years. A vote would also be required before current fees or taxes could be increased to pay for light rail construction.

The summary statement for the charter amendment states that the measure, if passed, could limit Tigard's ability to provide the local funding match.

It's almost exactly what anti-light rail petitioners want

Is it even worth it to bring light rail to Tigard ect.? I almost think Portland should just say screw 'em and end the line at PCC sylvania.

[bvpcvm]

I kind of doubt, given the political climate, that this would even be an issue in the next ten years. Maybe by the time this expires, LRT won't be so controversial. (haha)

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by Grantenfuego

Bad news.

http://www.oregonlive.com/tigard/index.ssf/2012/08/tigard_city_council_approves_c_1.html

Is it even worth it to bring light rail to Tigard ect.? I almost think Portland should just say screw 'em and end the line at PCC sylvania.

I don't have a problem with Tigard voting on a bond for light rail. I'm pretty confident the majority of voters there are eager to finally get their connection to the MAX system built. These Tea-Party loudmouths are a definite minority and don't realize that most people aren't willfully ignorant like they are.

Not all suburbs are anti-rail, in fact, most (including Tigard, Tualatin, Oregon City, Gladstone) are pro-rail and would jump at the opportunity to have MAX service. Even Vancouver supports it, but they unfortunately get lumped in with the rednecks out in Battle Ground, Brush Prairie and the rest of outer Clark County where they're more interested in tractor pulls and Nascar than public transportation.

[Okstate]

Forest Grove is perhaps the most pro-rail suburb. The local leadership there has been gunning for it adamantly for years.

[65MAX]

Exactly. Most cities within the UGB understand the benefits. It's the rural areas of Clackamas, Clark and Washington Counties that are so vocally negative. I think Tigard has done more to prepare in advance for HCT than any other suburb. So a vote there would go against the anti-rail, anti-progress blowhards.

[Okstate]

Interesting link to a discussion with Metro’s Elissa Gertler on BRT for both the planned SW (Barbur) and Powell areas.

"Planners are studying both light rail and rapid bus approaches for the southwest corridor. The Powell-Division corridor is a few years behind."

http://www.opb.org/news/article/light-rail-on-wheels-portland-ponders-bus-rapid-transit/

[Photogeric]

"rubber tire technology"....

That's hilarious! Has anybody ever considered just doing a cut and cover and burying it under the tighter sections of these corridors? It would be cheaper than using a boring machine and would probably end up costing similar to earth moving to make space or to build expensive raised sections to get around the pinch points.

[dubu]

you can only fit 2 bikes on a bus too

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by Photogeric

"rubber tire technology"....

That's hilarious! Has anybody ever considered just doing a cut and cover and burying it under the tighter sections of these corridors? It would be cheaper than using a boring machine and would probably end up costing similar to earth moving to make space or to build expensive raised sections to get around the pinch points.

Actually, cut and cover is more expensive than a bored tunnel. Especially through an area with up to 50% slopes (Barbur between Hamilton and Terwilliger). With a cut and cover tunnel, not only are you removing the rock from the tunnel ROW, but also everything ABOVE the tunnel as well. That often includes multiple utilities which need to be relocated and/or rebuilt. A bored tunnel goes under everything.

[davehogan]

Originally Posted by dabom

you can only fit 2 bikes on a bus too

TriMet almost definitely would get a fleet of BRT specific buses to address that and other issues the current fleet would face in a BRT application.

[tworivers]

Interesting, I just assumed MAX was off the table for this corridor. But this article makes it clear that it is still being seriously considered, along with a $700 million tunnel under OHSU. Of course it should go all the way to Sherwood, too -- look at Forest Grove and Oregon City. One can hope against hope.

I have zero faith in Trimet doing BRT right.

Southwest Corridor officials weigh rail, bus transit options

PORTLAND TRIBUNE
Created on Thursday, 11 July 2013 07:00 | Written by Pamplin Media Group

A decision that potentially could bring a MAX light-rail line through Tigard and into Tualatin is fast approaching.

This month members of the Southwest Corridor Plan Steering Committee are expected to vote on whether they want to continue looking at both light rail or bus rapid-transit options into Tigard and most of the corridor.

The committee — which is made up of Tigard Mayor John L. Cook, Tualatin Mayor Lou Ogden and a host of other regional mayors, county commissioners and Metro, ODOT and TriMet officials — met Monday for the last time before it is scheduled to make a decision.

“This is a very exciting moment in the life of this project,” said Bob Stacey, Metro councilor and co-chairman of the steering committee, “because we’ve spent two years ... identifying a list of potential projects, potential investments.”

...

Although many decisions have yet to be made, the project could cost up to $3.1 billion, according to Metro staff. Based on comparable projects, a light rail line to Tigard could cost $1.7 billion. Extending it to Sherwood could cost an additional $700 million. And tunneling under the Oregon Health and Sciences University could cost another $700 million.

...

The committee is expected to recommend studying both options from Portland to Tigard, with a line connecting Tigard to downtown Tualatin as well.

...

More than 2,600 people weighed in on surveys about the project, Ocana-Chiu said, “which is very strong for this type of public-opinion measure.”

The majority of respondents cited Sherwood as a preferred destination and supported studying both bus rapid transit and light rail as the committee moves into the next phase of the project, Ocana-Chiu said.

But not everyone was happy with where things were headed.

Kathy Newcomb, a member of Tualatin’s transportation task force, said there were other options that were not being considered.

“Rapid travel is very important,” she said, “and that does not seem to be part of what has been studied at all.”

In Tigard, a group hopes to put a ballot measure in front of voters stopping both bus rapid transit and light rail without a vote of the people.

...

[davehogan]

It would be interesting if Tigard having a MAX connection from Sherwood to Tigard would help with WES ridership at all. It seems like having MAX from Tualatin to Tigard would hurt the WES more than help it, but if people from Wilsonville/Tualatin could suddenly take WES to a MAX line downtown I wonder if that would help things.

I wouldn't mind seeing it as a two stage project, and do the Tigard to Downtown segment first, then see if expansion through Bridgeport Village and Tualatin in addition to Sherwood might be good followups.

[JordanL]

Originally Posted by davehogan

It would be interesting if Tigard having a MAX connection from Sherwood to Tigard would help with WES ridership at all. It seems like having MAX from Tualatin to Tigard would hurt the WES more than help it, but if people from Wilsonville/Tualatin could suddenly take WES to a MAX line downtown I wonder if that would help things.

I wouldn't mind seeing it as a two stage project, and do the Tigard to Downtown segment first, then see if expansion through Bridgeport Village and Tualatin in addition to Sherwood might be good followups.

I don't see why the route wouldn't be something like

99W -> Durham -> SW Boones Ferry -> Tualatin Sherwood Rd -> 99W

Yeah, going from Sherwood to downtown would take an extra 6 miles or so, but there's plenty of traffic between Tualatin and Sherwood as well.

[davehogan]

That's pretty much what I was thinking as well, Jordan.

[hat]

Possible alignment in Tigard/Tualatin.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/101004589@N07/10231367446/

[bvpcvm]

The problems I see with this are that 1. 72nd has some very steep slopes and 2. Max has to somehow get closer to Kruse Way; it's the biggest (?) employment center in the metro area. At the very least, max should go down I-5 around kruse way with a station with ped bridge across the freeway.

[hat]

Originally Posted by bvpcvm

The problems I see with this are that 1. 72nd has some very steep slopes and 2. Max has to somehow get closer to Kruse Way; it's the biggest (?) employment center in the metro area. At the very least, max should go down I-5 around kruse way with a station with ped bridge across the freeway.

Agreed. Though I would hesitate to involve Clackamas Co. in the planning. There are already a lot of partners (Tigard may be voting itself out unfortunately).

I think Bonita Rd may be close enough to the stop to accommodate pedestrians crossing I5. When I sketched this I thought the same in hindsight. Perhaps the station could be moved SE a block to Bonita road? Any MAX alignment may need a different crossing at 217 than 72nd partly for this reason, but also the crossing at 72nd is quite narrow.

One other thing. The station near George Fox may be augmented by a pedestrian crossing across I5. Haines is too far north. Again, Clackamas Co. may prove a barrier to this as well.

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by hat

Agreed. Though I would hesitate to involve Clackamas Co. in the planning. There are already a lot of partners (Tigard may be voting itself out unfortunately).

I think Bonita Rd may be close enough to the stop to accommodate pedestrians crossing I5. When I sketched this I thought the same in hindsight. Perhaps the station could be moved SE a block to Bonita road? Any MAX alignment may need a different crossing at 217 than 72nd partly for this reason, but also the crossing at 72nd is quite narrow.

One other thing. The station near George Fox may be augmented by a pedestrian crossing across I5. Haines is too far north. Again, Clackamas Co. may prove a barrier to this as well.

Tigard will almost certainly support MAX service, with or without a separate vote to approve funding. Also, Lake Oswego (Kruse Way) has the clout and funding capacity to make rural Clackamas Co blowhards irrelevant.

Remember when the Milwaukie City Council almost killed MAX service to their city? It's getting built in spite of the anti-rail loud mouths that were around 10 years ago. Tigard, Tualatin and Lake Oswego are all VERY pro-rail and have much more population, commerce, wealth and growth potential than Milwaukie will ever have. And that's not even including the state's largest concentration of employment outside of downtown Portland... OHSU and the 4 hospitals on top of Marquam Hill. I guarantee that MAX is going to be the HCT of choice for the SW Corridor. BRT won't be acceptable to any of those jurisdictions.