General Updates and News

[JET]

"an excellent area to "mull about" whilst sipping on your coffee or whatever"

not to put to too fine a point on it, but 'mill about', perhaps? Otherwise, I agree.

[coolmillion]

Originally Posted by JET

"change and expand Scotia Square which is much better suited to shopping"

interesting; it is a ghost town for shopping given what it was originally.

It is much better suited to shopping because it is full of people all the time given its parking garages, food court and the office towers and residences in close proximity. In contrast the Barrington Place has been more tourist oriented (apart from a few specialty shops) and has acted mainly as a pedestrian link. You're correct that Scotia Square isn't what it once was but it seems to be working in its current format. I don't know too much about the plans to renovate and expand (in particular if they will involve more shops), but they have have been mentioned in other threads.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JET

"an excellent area to "mull about" whilst sipping on your coffee or whatever"

not to put to too fine a point on it, but 'mill about', perhaps? Otherwise, I agree.

Typo. Sorry.

Perhaps I should have said to "spend some time enjoying the open public space in a relaxing manner"...

[Phalanx]

I think the location is the biggest knock against it. It's an area primarily designed for foot traffic, but it backs on to a dead area for most pedestrians. There's not much through traffic, and and outside of the immediate area, there isn't much else going on with Granville. It's the type of area that could really improve once the Cogswell mess is sorted out.

It would be a little more 'connected', and there'd be more through traffic.

[Keith P.]

Pedestrian malls never seem to work long-term. I will let the planners debate as to why.

[scooby074]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Pedestrian malls never seem to work long-term. I will let the planners debate as to why.

Sparks St. begs to differ.

[someone123]

It may be better now but when I was there a few years ago Sparks Street was pretty reminiscent of Granville. It is longer and less of a dead end but it still felt like it was stuck in low gear and it had a lot of empty storefronts and marginal retail. It was markedly less successful than the market area, which is more analogous to Spring Garden Road. The same pattern exists in many Canadian cities. It seems to me like the CBD/retail combo just didn't work out that well over the long term. Vancouver has done better but it has a lot of downtown residents.

[alps]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

I think the location is the biggest knock against it. It's an area primarily designed for foot traffic, but it backs on to a dead area for most pedestrians. There's not much through traffic, and and outside of the immediate area, there isn't much else going on with Granville. It's the type of area that could really improve once the Cogswell mess is sorted out.

It would be a little more 'connected', and there'd be more through traffic.

Agreed, I also think Granville would work better if it was carried through in some way to the Cogswell lands eventually. If International Place is built I hope you're able to pass through the ground floor of the building in a welcoming and intuitive way.

[ILoveHalifax]

Why don't we just turn Granville into a one way north bound street that turns right unto Hollis St. It would at least increase some on street parking.

[Drybrain]

I actually agree with Keith on this. Successful pedestrian malls are few and far between--I think I've mentioned this before, but an interesting model for Granville would be to re-connect it at the north end during Cogswell redevelopment, and turn it into a naked street--open to vehicles, but prioritizing no particular mode of transport.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I actually agree with Keith on this. Successful pedestrian malls are few and far between--I think I've mentioned this before, but an interesting model for Granville would be to re-connect it at the north end during Cogswell redevelopment, and turn it into a naked street--open to vehicles, but prioritizing no particular mode of transport.

If we make it a 'naked street' could lead to some very interesting parties.

[OldDartmouthMark]

This board never ceases to amaze me.

Talk about building more/larger streets to increase traffic flow and it's dismissed as a poor idea that will lead to the ruination of the downtown... and that there should be more pedestrian-friendly areas to bring people into the area.

Talk about the virtues of a pedestrian-friendly area and ask about why it doesn't seem to be successful, and it's suggested that it should be turned into a street to increase traffic flow....

Go figure!

Seriously, I agree that the fact it's cut off on the north end by a very pedestrian unfriendly area (i.e. Cogswell) and that it is not really a destination for people coming downtown (as there are better shopping areas as well as the waterfront to draw "visitors"), as the main reasons for its lack of success. If there were more residential in the area and actual shopping (rather than tourist shopping) it would stand a chance of succeeding IMHO. I think another thing which crippled it is that NSCAD took up a large section of the block, thereby reducing the draw for the public.

Oh well, for anybody looking for a nice quiet outdoor patio dining/drinking experience, I would strongly suggest Brussels on Granville. Enjoy it before they reopen the street to traffic!

[coolmillion]

Just to clarify, my original comment was about the interior of Barrington Place. It acts as a pedestrian link between the office towers on the other side of Duke and Scotia Square. This is another reason for the failure of Barrington Mall - pedestrians are indoors rather than outside. I think that a bigger problem has been poor management by Crombie REIT (see also Park Lane). The restaurants facing Granville Mall on under the hotel have always been 🞵🞵🞵🞵. As the quality of other places in Halifax improved, people (even tourists) went elsewhere. They (Peddler's Pub, etc.) eventually closed, only to be replaced with more 🞵🞵🞵🞵 (Boston Pizza) and the future gym, which is a completely innapropriate use of the space. I think this must be due to the leasing mandate of the company and the configuration of the retail spaces. The businesses under NSCAD are more successful and note that they are smaller and independently owned.

[Ziobrop]

Originally Posted by scooby074

Sparks St. begs to differ.

How, its dead after 5 pm when the civil servants go away. except for the rib fest week, and buskers fest week.
Otherwise, dead.

[Fischbob]

Anyone who doubts the effectiveness of pedestrian malls should take a walk down rue Prince-Arthur E. in Montreal. A larger residential population in the area would do wonders for Granville.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Yeah, both residential and commercial in a pedestrian square with towers on the Cogswell site.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by coolmillion

Just to clarify, my original comment was about the interior of Barrington Place. It acts as a pedestrian link between the office towers on the other side of Duke and Scotia Square. This is another reason for the failure of Barrington Mall - pedestrians are indoors rather than outside. I think that a bigger problem has been poor management by Crombie REIT (see also Park Lane). The restaurants facing Granville Mall on under the hotel have always been 🞵🞵🞵🞵. As the quality of other places in Halifax improved, people (even tourists) went elsewhere. They (Peddler's Pub, etc.) eventually closed, only to be replaced with more 🞵🞵🞵🞵 (Boston Pizza) and the future gym, which is a completely innapropriate use of the space. I think this must be due to the leasing mandate of the company and the configuration of the retail spaces. The businesses under NSCAD are more successful and note that they are smaller and independently owned.

Sorry, I had hijacked your post a little.

These are excellent points which indicate to me that perhaps poor management (and planning to some extent) is the real reason for the failure of this area rather than the concept of the Granville Mall itself.

Hopefully with Cogswell being reconfigured someday there will be more residential there and the north side will be opened up to pedestrian traffic. Would be nice if some of the vacancies on the NSCAD side would be filled, but that might be asking for too much...

[coolmillion]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Sorry, I had hijacked your post a little.

These are excellent points which indicate to me that perhaps poor management (and planning to some extent) is the real reason for the failure of this area rather than the concept of the Granville Mall itself.

Hopefully with Cogswell being reconfigured someday there will be more residential there and the north side will be opened up to pedestrian traffic. Would be nice if some of the vacancies on the NSCAD side would be filled, but that might be asking for too much...

No worries! I was just thinking that the interior of Barrington Place is a bit different than the exterior along Granville Mall :-)

[JET]

Common Roots Urban Farm, at site of QE High
http://www2.fiskars.com/Community/Project-Orange-Thumb/Halifax

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Sorry, I had hijacked your post a little.

These are excellent points which indicate to me that perhaps poor management (and planning to some extent) is the real reason for the failure of this area rather than the concept of the Granville Mall itself.

Hopefully with Cogswell being reconfigured someday there will be more residential there and the north side will be opened up to pedestrian traffic. Would be nice if some of the vacancies on the NSCAD side would be filled, but that might be asking for too much...

Don't necessarily disagree with all of this, but I think that a lot of the problems that we're debating on here with respect to Barrington Place / Granville would be *easily* solved just with more people living downtown, particularly around this area.

I mean, beyond a smattering of office towers (a few of which are being worked on), you just have a very low residential density there.

Get more people living down there via some new higher density developments (possibly at Cogswell?), and I can almost bet you, life would spring up from the blasted ruin that is currently Granville Mall.