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  #2921  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 2:05 AM
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rocketphish rocketphish is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/06/25/committee-passes-12m-cost-to-move-buildings

Seriously?

Not a lot of people share my definition of historic building.
Committee passes $1.2M cost to move buildings

By Jon Willing, Ottawa Sun


First posted: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 11:23 AM EDT | Updated: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 11:30 AM EDT

The planning committee Tuesday approved spending $1.2 million to relocate two residential buildings on Sussex Dr. to make way for a road realignment.

Council will get the final say Wednesday.

The single-family home at 273 Sussex Dr. and the other residential building at 275-279 Sussex Dr. are owned by the National Capital Commission.

The current road alignment doesn't meet safety standards. A $30-million realignment project is in the works, but the buildings are in the way.

Council refused demolition of the buildings because of their heritage value, so the next-best option is relocating the buildings east on the lots.

Cumberland Coun. Stephen Blais said he didn't understand why the city is paying to move the NCC's buildings when the NCC hasn't budged on other city requests. Kanata South Coun. Allan Hubley also questioned why city taxpayers are being billed for the relocations.

Both councillors voted against the request, but the rest of the committee voted in favour.
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  #2922  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 3:01 AM
brentgaulois brentgaulois is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Committee passes $1.2M cost to move buildings

By Jon Willing, Ottawa Sun


First posted: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 11:23 AM EDT | Updated: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 11:30 AM EDT

The planning committee Tuesday approved spending $1.2 million to relocate two residential buildings on Sussex Dr. to make way for a road realignment.

Council will get the final say Wednesday.

The single-family home at 273 Sussex Dr. and the other residential building at 275-279 Sussex Dr. are owned by the National Capital Commission.

The current road alignment doesn't meet safety standards. A $30-million realignment project is in the works, but the buildings are in the way.

Council refused demolition of the buildings because of their heritage value, so the next-best option is relocating the buildings east on the lots.

Cumberland Coun. Stephen Blais said he didn't understand why the city is paying to move the NCC's buildings when the NCC hasn't budged on other city requests. Kanata South Coun. Allan Hubley also questioned why city taxpayers are being billed for the relocations.

Both councillors voted against the request, but the rest of the committee voted in favour.
It sounds like after losing the chance to demolish these buildings, the NCC refused to give up and found another reason that would allow them to widen the road.
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  #2923  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 4:32 PM
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This is just stupid. There is no reason why we should pay to move these buildings (and no reason why we are keeping them either, the NCC will continue to neglect them and eventually tear them down for safety reasons, oh and... not historic!) and I assume we will foot the bill for the roadwork. Also not our problem.
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  #2924  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 4:50 PM
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Kitchissippi Kitchissippi is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
This is just stupid. There is no reason why we should pay to move these buildings (and no reason why we are keeping them either, the NCC will continue to neglect them and eventually tear them down for safety reasons, oh and... not historic!) and I assume we will foot the bill for the roadwork. Also not our problem.
The media is doing a great job at misinformation on this issue just to get people riled up against the NCC. The truth is the City designed the roadway and presented the NCC with the option to demolish the properties, to which the NCC agreed. THe City then contradicted itself when its heritage committee insisted that the properties be preserved. The NCC probably would have accepted a 2 or 3 lane design (like farther down past the Rideau River, but the city has this section of Sussex on their books as a major arterial and bike route and wants the road widened. In fact the NCC asked the City to study lane reductions:
http://www.canadascapital.gc.ca/sites/de...boulevard_-_king_edward_to_stpatrick.pdf

Turning the tables around, why should the NCC pay to move the buildings which it doesn't want anyway (because in their original plan they want Sussex reserved for embassies and diplomatic functions, not residential), but the city's heritage committee insists on preserving? The ball is definitely in the city's court on this one, either they remove the heritage designation and demolish the properties, or dig into their pockets to move them, or redesign the road with less lanes.
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  #2925  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 5:53 PM
teej1984 teej1984 is offline
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This is just so weird... looking on Google Maps, it seems like a natural progression from a boulevard to a slimmer city street. The curve seems like a perfectly fine place for this to happen! Oh well...
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  #2926  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 10:58 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by teej1984 View Post
This is just so weird... looking on Google Maps, it seems like a natural progression from a boulevard to a slimmer city street. The curve seems like a perfectly fine place for this to happen! Oh well...
If anything, the long-term plan should be to re-enstreeten that god-awful "boulevard" brutalistic ceremonial — north of the bend. It used to be a street. It should be a street again, not a multi-lane drag strip with ugly, brutalistic, pompous, soul-sucking ceremonial buildings lining it.
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  #2927  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 2:35 AM
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Century-old church to be sold, possibly replaced by condos

By Drake Fenton, OTTAWA CITIZEN June 26, 2013 7:07 PM


OTTAWA — It was the birthplace of Vanier’s francophone community and was the home of secret societies and Christian paramilitary groups, but when the 105-year-old Saint-Charles Church is put up for sale this fall, a reminder of all that history might be replaced by condo buildings.

The church has been vacant for the past three years and while the building hasn’t officially been listed for sale, according to Kevin Beach, a vicar with the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Ottawa, the parish responsible for the church has asked to sell the property.

Beach would not discuss who might be interested in the site, but the development company Domicile has expressed interest in purchasing the building. Domicile is building a 10-storey condominium building on Beechwood Avenue, three blocks east of the church.

“We are interested in the site and have no information about who else might be,” said Domicile’s senior vice-president David Chick in an email. “We are not ‘in discussion’ with the church, but we have been in contact with the Archdiocese to let them know we are interested when they are ready to sell.”

It might be too soon to say whether condos spring up at the Saint Charles site, but according to a city official who was involved in the planning process, two years ago there was a plan to preserve a portion of the church’s architecture to be used as a mixed-used space, with condo buildings wrapped around the perimeter.

But negotiations with the developer broke down because of a “personal” reason, the city official said.

“The parish committee looked at some projects,” Beach said, “But it didn’t work out. Let’s just put it that way.”

But now, Beach said, he doesn’t believe that any of the church’s structure will be kept. “I can’t imagine a developer wanting to keep that building on the site,” he said.

The possibility of the church disappearing has some Vanier residents worried.

“We don’t prefer one type of project in particular, but the only important thing is the preservation of the building,” said Yanick Labossière, the exhibition manager at the Vanier Museopark. “If only the front of the church can be saved, we can live with that. We want to preserve the history of the church and the significance it has for Vanier.”

Labossière explained that the church helped to create and maintain a lasting francophone community in the Vanier area. He said the church’s former priest François-Xavier Barrette created the Order of Jacques-Cartier, a secret society based out of Saint Charles and dedicated to defending Canada’s francophones. The all-male society dissolved in 1965, but at its peak it was estimated to have more than 11,000 members across Canada.

Despite its history, Labossière said, the church was never designated a heritage location because it went through massive interior renovations in the 1960s that disqualified it from heritage status.

And renovations are at the root of the problem today. The principal reason the church is being sold is because of upkeep costs.

“The church costs a lot of money to maintain,” Labossière said. “The renovations needed to get the building up to date would cost more than $1 million.”

Those costs paired with an expensive listing price — a real estate agent who has sold properties along Beechwood said he estimates the church will be listed somewhere near $2 million — have other Vanier residents considering their options if the church is demolished.

“The development opportunity for a condo isn’t a bad thing,” said Janak Alford, a designer for a non-profit company who will be presenting at a Vanier community meeting Wednesday night on different ways the church could be redeveloped. “These developments can become significantly richer if we think how we can make a community within the building itself.”

Alford said a new development can still carry on the tradition of the church as a community gathering point. He said the options are wide-ranging, from installing a space where local events could be held to creating an artists’ loft where residents can display their art.

But Labossière is not sure any of that could make up for what would be lost.

“This would be devastating for Vanier’s francophones,” he said. “This church is much more than a brick structure. It represents the memory of a people that has long had to fight for its survival.”

[email protected]
twitter.com/drakefenton
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Centur...+condos/8583590/story.html#ixzz2XNdEJoTD

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  #2928  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 3:30 AM
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DESIGNATE HISTORIC NOW!!!

—! Move a few — buildings from Sussex, move a bland building at Lansdowne, save a shell of a former school at the back of the Market, save some horse racing track but knock down an architectural masterpiece of a historic department store and a church that was once the heart of the francophone population in Ottawa.

These idiots royally piss me off! Oh! two more "historic" things protected for no apparent reason; the monarch and the senate. How much can we save by knocking down those obsolete institutions?
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  #2929  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 12:29 PM
JackBauer24 JackBauer24 is offline
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Is this the same church that either had a fire or was affected by an earthquake 5 years ago or so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Century-old church to be sold, possibly replaced by condos

By Drake Fenton, OTTAWA CITIZEN June 26, 2013 7:07 PM


OTTAWA — It was the birthplace of Vanier’s francophone community and was the home of secret societies and Christian paramilitary groups, but when the 105-year-old Saint-Charles Church is put up for sale this fall, a reminder of all that history might be replaced by condo buildings.

The church has been vacant for the past three years and while the building hasn’t officially been listed for sale, according to Kevin Beach, a vicar with the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Ottawa, the parish responsible for the church has asked to sell the property.

Beach would not discuss who might be interested in the site, but the development company Domicile has expressed interest in purchasing the building. Domicile is building a 10-storey condominium building on Beechwood Avenue, three blocks east of the church.

“We are interested in the site and have no information about who else might be,” said Domicile’s senior vice-president David Chick in an email. “We are not ‘in discussion’ with the church, but we have been in contact with the Archdiocese to let them know we are interested when they are ready to sell.”

It might be too soon to say whether condos spring up at the Saint Charles site, but according to a city official who was involved in the planning process, two years ago there was a plan to preserve a portion of the church’s architecture to be used as a mixed-used space, with condo buildings wrapped around the perimeter.

But negotiations with the developer broke down because of a “personal” reason, the city official said.

“The parish committee looked at some projects,” Beach said, “But it didn’t work out. Let’s just put it that way.”

But now, Beach said, he doesn’t believe that any of the church’s structure will be kept. “I can’t imagine a developer wanting to keep that building on the site,” he said.

The possibility of the church disappearing has some Vanier residents worried.

“We don’t prefer one type of project in particular, but the only important thing is the preservation of the building,” said Yanick Labossière, the exhibition manager at the Vanier Museopark. “If only the front of the church can be saved, we can live with that. We want to preserve the history of the church and the significance it has for Vanier.”

Labossière explained that the church helped to create and maintain a lasting francophone community in the Vanier area. He said the church’s former priest François-Xavier Barrette created the Order of Jacques-Cartier, a secret society based out of Saint Charles and dedicated to defending Canada’s francophones. The all-male society dissolved in 1965, but at its peak it was estimated to have more than 11,000 members across Canada.

Despite its history, Labossière said, the church was never designated a heritage location because it went through massive interior renovations in the 1960s that disqualified it from heritage status.

And renovations are at the root of the problem today. The principal reason the church is being sold is because of upkeep costs.

“The church costs a lot of money to maintain,” Labossière said. “The renovations needed to get the building up to date would cost more than $1 million.”

Those costs paired with an expensive listing price — a real estate agent who has sold properties along Beechwood said he estimates the church will be listed somewhere near $2 million — have other Vanier residents considering their options if the church is demolished.

“The development opportunity for a condo isn’t a bad thing,” said Janak Alford, a designer for a non-profit company who will be presenting at a Vanier community meeting Wednesday night on different ways the church could be redeveloped. “These developments can become significantly richer if we think how we can make a community within the building itself.”

Alford said a new development can still carry on the tradition of the church as a community gathering point. He said the options are wide-ranging, from installing a space where local events could be held to creating an artists’ loft where residents can display their art.

But Labossière is not sure any of that could make up for what would be lost.

“This would be devastating for Vanier’s francophones,” he said. “This church is much more than a brick structure. It represents the memory of a people that has long had to fight for its survival.”

[email protected]
twitter.com/drakefenton
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Centur...+condos/8583590/story.html#ixzz2XNdEJoTD

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  #2930  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 1:50 PM
Capital Shaun Capital Shaun is offline
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Is this the same church that either had a fire or was affected by an earthquake 5 years ago or so?
No. That church was in Québec. This one is in Vanier.
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  #2931  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 1:56 PM
Capital Shaun Capital Shaun is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
DESIGNATE HISTORIC NOW!!!

—! Move a few — buildings from Sussex, move a bland building at Lansdowne, save a shell of a former school at the back of the Market, save some horse racing track but knock down an architectural masterpiece of a historic department store and a church that was once the heart of the francophone population in Ottawa.

These idiots royally piss me off! Oh! two more "historic" things protected for no apparent reason; the monarch and the senate. How much can we save by knocking down those obsolete institutions?
I agree. I see little point in protecting buildings that are falling appart due to years (or decades) of neglect. But this church looks to be in decent shape. It should probably be saved and maybe turn it into a community center of some sort. For example the old Immaculata High School building at 211 Bronson, built in 1928, has been converted to house non-profits and community services.
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  #2932  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 2:44 PM
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I agree. I see little point in protecting buildings that are falling appart due to years (or decades) of neglect. But this church looks to be in decent shape. It should probably be saved and maybe turn it into a community center of some sort. For example the old Immaculata High School building at 211 Bronson, built in 1928, has been converted to house non-profits and community services.
St-Charles is in pretty good shape I'd say though in need of renovations. It only closed in 2010.
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  #2933  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 2:45 PM
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No. That church was in Québec. This one is in Vanier.
It was St-Paul in Aylmer. Destroyed by an arsonist.
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  #2934  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 3:23 PM
JackBauer24 JackBauer24 is offline
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It was St-Paul in Aylmer. Destroyed by an arsonist.
Right, that's the one.
Thanks.
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  #2935  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 3:42 PM
Kibb Kibb is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
DESIGNATE HISTORIC NOW!!!

—! Move a few — buildings from Sussex, move a bland building at Lansdowne, save a shell of a former school at the back of the Market, save some horse racing track but knock down an architectural masterpiece of a historic department store and a church that was once the heart of the francophone population in Ottawa.

These idiots royally piss me off! Oh! two more "historic" things protected for no apparent reason; the monarch and the senate. How much can we save by knocking down those obsolete institutions?
What a pretty building, ya that shouldn't be knocked down.

You had me on the rest of the points til the monarchy, I can't possibly fathom how that would save us anything... I can only imagine the boondoggle that would end up. You'd have to add a presidency, or make the governor general a presidency in all but name. Since you couldn't have the leader of a party in the commons literally pick the head of state, you'd be adding elections for sure.

Nevermind the constitutional cans of worms opened up, how much that would all cost, what you end up with in the end. Count me out on that whole charade.
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  #2936  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 4:17 PM
Norman Bates Norman Bates is offline
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What a pretty building, ya that shouldn't be knocked down.

You had me on the rest of the points til the monarchy, I can't possibly fathom how that would save us anything... I can only imagine the boondoggle that would end up. You'd have to add a presidency, or make the governor general a presidency in all but name. Since you couldn't have the leader of a party in the commons literally pick the head of state, you'd be adding elections for sure.

Nevermind the constitutional cans of worms opened up, how much that would all cost, what you end up with in the end. Count me out on that whole charade.
Mom says let's wait and see what Australia does - and then copy them like the self-respecting country we are.
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  #2937  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 4:19 PM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kibb View Post
What a pretty building, ya that shouldn't be knocked down.

You had me on the rest of the points til the monarchy, I can't possibly fathom how that would save us anything... I can only imagine the boondoggle that would end up. You'd have to add a presidency, or make the governor general a presidency in all but name. Since you couldn't have the leader of a party in the commons literally pick the head of state, you'd be adding elections for sure.

Nevermind the constitutional cans of worms opened up, how much that would all cost, what you end up with in the end. Count me out on that whole charade.
Fair enough, we don't have to support the Monarchy, that's the UK's problem. Doesn't change that we (or the UK) have any use for them. Same with the GG (although if he had the power of kicking out corrupt politicians or even the PM, then we might have a use for him), same with the Senate.

But anyway, St-Charles is an important landmark in the area and could be turned into a community centre (as Capital Shaun suggested), or a theatre or whatever other useful purpose that preserves it at 100%.

Maybe if a developer bought the church and the strip mall/parking lot behind it, the city could give them more leeway or a break on taxes and/or permits when it comes to developing the strip mall/parking lot in exchange for full protection of the church.

Or, give the place full heritage designation before a developer buys it.
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  #2938  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 5:19 PM
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rocketphish rocketphish is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It was St-Paul in Aylmer. Destroyed by an arsonist.
Or are you referring to Ste-Anne's church on Old St. Patrick St. which partially collapsed in 2009?

http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/part-of-church-collapses-in-lowertown-1.385726
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  #2939  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 5:33 PM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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Windmill Developments could probably do something interesting with this building and the surrounding lands They're working on a former church in Toronto and the plan looks amazing.
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  #2940  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 5:39 PM
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Windmill Developments could probably do something interesting with this building and the surrounding lands They're working on a former church in Toronto and the plan looks amazing.
There are lots of good examples of church buildings being incorporated into commercial developments. The only oddity in this case is perhaps the way the church faces the side street rather than out toward Beechwood, but that is nothing insurmountable.

Of course, the best use for the building would be as a church.
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