Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[GlassCity]

I live in the area where the C88 runs. It runs every half hour, and I'm usually the only one on it. I understand that it's kind of a waste of money to spend on a bus route that nobody uses, but Jackson is right about service being needed. If they cut it down to one bus an hour, it would be basically useless.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by Meraki

Apparently exhaust fumes are leaking into the interior.

Way back when BC Transit was still operating transit in metro vancouver, they introduced community shuttles that had an exhaust leakage problem too..

[DKaz]

Orion IIs. They were pretty cool buses at the time, it's too bad they didn't work out. We sold them to another transit system who I believe then modified them to correct the exhaust problem, something BC Transit and/or the union didn't want to do.


Source: http://www.busdrawings.com/Transit/Britishcolumbia/vancouver/orionii/index.htm

[Waders]

A new Youtube video with split sreeen showing side-by-side along the tracks in 1986 and 2012.
Source: The Province

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Orion IIs. They were pretty cool buses at the time, it's too bad they didn't work out. We sold them to another transit system who I believe then modified them to correct the exhaust problem, something BC Transit and/or the union didn't want to do.


Source: http://www.busdrawings.com/Transit/Britishcolumbia/vancouver/orionii/index.htm

Yes I remember these out in Maple Ridge. In fact, when the Ridge joined the GVRD in the 90's BC transit started using small airport rental car type shuttles that were eventually replaced by more conventional looking mini/short buses though the brand escapes me now. They had one door to Board at the front and a wheelchair door/lift mid way. They worked well enough and ran on the local routes for a few years. These Orion's replaced them but were pulled due to the exhaust issue. I forget what they used prior to the community shuttle buses being introduced.

These Orion IIs always looked a little funny to me.

[SpongeG]

in case u dont wanna link from above
• Video Link

[go_leafs_go02]

Yikes. Millenium line out of service between Braid & VCC-Clark station due to a computer error.

[nname]

The schedule for 96 B-Line in September:

96 - Mon-Fri - From Newton to Guildford
5:03am [15] 6:03am [12] 7:04am [7-8] 10:34pm [15] 1:04x

96 - Mon-Fri - From Guildford to Newton
5:06am [15] 6:06am [12] 7:06am [7-8] 10:50pm [15] 12:50x

96 - Sat/Sun - From Newton to Guildford
5:03am [15] 6:35am [7-8] 10:28pm [15] 12:56x

96 - Sat/Sun - From Guildford to Newton
5:06am [15] 7:06am [7-8] 10:43pm [15] 12:58x

Note: [x] means every x minutes in between buses

Running time is 22-27min during the day, and about 20min late night.

The schedule is actually much better than I thought... especially the weekend service. I'm not sure if there's that much demand to warrant a 7.5min service at 10:30pm on Sunday night....

The reduction to 320/321 due to B-Line

320 - Mon-Fri - Surrey Central to Langley Centre
5:41am 6:01am* 6:16am [15*/30] 9:20pm 9:40pm* 10:10pm [30*/60] 1:37x* 2:07x

No change for Sat/Sun

* to Fleetwood only


321 - Mon-Fri - Surrey Central to White Rock Centre
5:08am** 5:23am** 5:38am* 5:53am** 6:18am** 6:33am 6:48am** 6:54am 7:13am 7:31am [15] 8:47pm 9:09pm 9:24pm* 9:38pm 9:54pm 10:29pm** 11:01pm 11:32pm** 12:02x* 12:37x** 1:06x* 1:37x 2:07x*

321 - Sat - Surrey Central to White Rock Centre
5:26am+ 5:56am**+ 5:55am 6:10am** 6:27am** 6:42am [15/30**] 8:42am [15] 7:15pm 7:30pm** [15/60**] 9:00pm 9:15pm* 9:30pm** 9:45pm* 10:00pm 10:30pm** 11:00pm 11:27pm** 12:02x* 12:37x** 1:07x* 1:37x 2:07x**

No change for Sun

* to Newton only
** to White Rock South
+ from Newton

And someone might be interested in the new 335 schedule...

335 - Mon-Fri - From Surrey Central to Newton
5:13am 5:45am 6:00am* 6:10am [10*/20] 8:51am 9:05am* 9:20am [15*/30] 2:35pm* 2:48pm 2:58pm* [10*/20] 6:18pm* 6:40pm [30] 8:40pm 9:10pm* [30*] 12:10x*

335 - Sat - From Surrey Central to Newton
6:15am* 6:45am* 7:15am* 7:45am [30] 6:15pm 6:45pm* [30*] 12:15x*

335 - Sun - From Surrey Central to Newton
8:15am [30] 6:15pm 6:44pm* [30*] 11:44pm*

* to Guildford only

The schedule for the reverse direction is very similar.

... And.. the 314 actually increase in service after the removal of Scott Road portion:

314 - Mon-Fri - From Surrey Central to Sunbury
5:27am** 6:10am [30] 8:43am [60] 3:45pm [30] 5:15pm 5:45pm* [30*] 7:15pm* [60*] 12:15x*

No change for Sat/Sun

* to Scott and 96th only
** from King George and 96th

[xd_1771]

Ouch. The new 335 schedule cuts off a 9:20PM weeknight trip and also the last trip leaves 10 minutes earlier than the previous second last trip. On Sats and Suns, the last trip departs 20 minutes earlier. This is going to hurt 160 St riders

[huenthar]

Originally Posted by nname

The schedule for 96 B-Line in September:

Now that is more like it! Decent bus service for the corridor, finally! Too bad it doesn't run into White Rock yet...

Except... how can it be 7-8 min frequency one way on weekends but 12 min frequency the other direction? Is that a typo?

[nname]

Originally Posted by huenthar

Now that is more like it! Decent bus service for the corridor, finally! Too bad it doesn't run into White Rock yet...

Except... how can it be 7-8 min frequency one way on weekends but 12 min frequency the other direction? Is that a typo?

Fixed. Its every 7-8min both ways.

I don't know... for one I think they are just providing way too much service at some time of day. Peak hour service on the route is every 7-8min, but is there that much demand that mid-day, early-, late-evenings, and weekends that also warrant the 7-8min service? I wonder why couldn't they just lower the off-peak frequency to.. say.. every 10-15min, and use the resource saved to extend the service to White Rock. Even with 15min frequency, it still have a great service every 7.5min when combined with the local route.

By the way, the 96 B-Line will have even better off-peak service than the 99 B-Line. In fact, the 96 will be the first route ever to run at a headway below 10min past 9pm week night, and one of the only 3 to have service better than every 15min. Not only that, its being served by articulated bus too! I hope I'm wrong, but with this schedule, the 96 seems to be going to have a lot of quite empty buses running around off-peak, especially those late evening runs...

[xd_1771]

Even with 15min frequency, it still have a great service every 7.5min when combined with the local route.

That assumes that the local service is great to begin with (since when could you do a Guildford-Newton trip in 22-27 minutes, even if you catch a 337 it is currently impossible due to the lack of a KGB express)

In fact, the 96 will be the first route ever to run at a headway below 10min past 9pm week night

I like this, actually. By maintaining service as frequent as the SkyTrain at those time of nights and mid-day, it will really help a car to transit shift start even sooner for some people (you all do realize that Surrey is already going to need more than the max $2.1b investment in rapid transit proposed to bring it in line with regional mode-shift goals). The frequencies could also create an incentive for businesses in the growing town centres to be open later - something Surrey is really lacking.

Anyway, I think it's partly for the sake of continuity. 7.5 minutes midday frequencies to ensure buses are running every 15 minutes to White Rock during FTN hours and to some extent after them (at least, when that extension takes place), and so that those midday frequencies are better than 15 minutes between Newton/Guildford. Sure you can have the local and express service to Newton/Guildford every 7.5 minutes, but one is not as fast as the other, and this creates wayfinding issues as not everyone who misses the bus every 15 minutes will know that a local departs in the next 7.5 (and you can imagine that with the amount of people who in Surrey don't ride transit and probably don't know how, how this could possibly deter ridership).

Also, it helps because Surrey commuters coming in from, say, Vancouver and leaving at 9PM are still at least 40 minutes away from Surrey. So, I can see why the extension of frequency, as compared to Vancouver where most people who leave at 9PM are already on their final route home at 9PM (therefore the frequency cut-offs by 10PM). This creates leeway for those who commute further.

My biggest pinch about these schedules is how the 96 will get excellent late-night service, yet late night service on the 335 is going to get cut some. I've sent a suggestion on the website form on 335 schedules and I'm hopefully going to try and establish contact regarding how this could be addressed by adjusting 96 schedules (thanks for pointing it out). It seems a small reduction of 96 late-night frequency could restore or improve some late night services on outlying routes.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure it was previously mentioned that there will be 40 ft buses on the 96 during some times of day (it was in some earlier mentions from planners, I believe back in the 2012 moving forward consultations). It's likely that late night service in particular will revert to them.

[nname]

Well, for mid-day, they could either drop the local service to every 20-30min, or drop the B-Line service to every 15min but extend all trips to White Rock. After all, the B-Line is just 3 minutes faster than the 321. Just look at the schedule at around noon:

	WR	NT	SC	GU
321	11:33a	12:00p	12:18p	 -
96	 -	12:02p	12:18p	12:25p
96	 -	12:09p	12:25p	12:32p
321	11:48a	12:15p	12:34p	 -
96	 -	12:17p	12:33p	12:40p
96	 -	12:24p	12:40p	12:47p
321	12:04p	12:31p	12:50p	 -
96	 -	12:32p	12:49p	12:56p
96	 -	12:39p	12:56p	 1:03p
321	12:19p	12:46p	 1:06p	 -
96	 -	12:47p	 1:04p	 1:11p
96	 -	12:54p	 1:11p	 1:18p

You see once every 15 minutes, there will be TWO buses that leave Newton and arrive at Surrey Central at basically the exact same time. I'm just wondering, are there really THAT much demand that they have to use two buses?

The same applies to the Guildford side, except not only with the 320, there's also the 501 and 337 that basically duplicate service and provide an average headway of just 3.75 (!!) minutes.

Wouldn't something like this works better?

	WR	NT	SC	GU
321	11:33a	12:00p	12:18p	 -
96	11:45a	12:09p	12:25p	12:32p
321	11:48a	12:15p	12:34p	 -
96	12:00p	12:24p	12:40p	12:47p
321	12:04p	12:31p	12:50p	 -
96	12:15p	12:39p	12:56p	 1:03p
321	12:19p	12:46p	 1:06p	 -
96	12:30p	12:54p	 1:11p	 1:18p

The exact same thing applies to the evening too. There are just so much service on those two corridors that I highly doubt if its even needed.

[nname]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

My biggest pinch about these schedules is how the 96 will get excellent late-night service, yet late night service on the 335 is going to get cut some. I've sent a suggestion on the website form on 335 schedules and I'm hopefully going to try and establish contact regarding how this could be addressed by adjusting 96 schedules (thanks for pointing it out). It seems a small reduction of 96 late-night frequency could restore or improve some late night services on outlying routes.

Actually, these schedules has not been released, and will not be until sometimes in August. So...

But I guess difference is that the B-Line is part of "service expansion" (the same package with Evergreen Line and Rapid Bus) and the headway was "promised" just like the 3min service on Evergreen Line and 10min Rapid Bus. So they can't change it.. for now. The 335 is "service optimization" so you suppose to loose something to get the extension to Newton.

Maybe if people in Surrey does not fill up those late evening runs within a year or so, they'll begin to "optimize" the B-Line and move the resource onto other route or extension to WR. Just like how they said "hey, maybe we should turn that route into shuttles" to the #531 added just a year ago.

[g35]

Sorry if I missed it but what route does the 96 take between Newton and Guildford? Is it up King George then 104th?

[go_leafs_go02]

Is the 394 toast once the 96 B-Line comes into effect?

[nname]

Originally Posted by g35

Sorry if I missed it but what route does the 96 take between Newton and Guildford? Is it up King George then 104th?

Northbound:
55411 NEWTON EXCHANGE BAY 3
55414 NB KING GEORGE BLVD AT 76 AV
55421 NB KING GEORGE BLVD AT 88 AV
54988 NB KING GEORGE BLVD AT 96 AV
54990 KING GEORGE STN BAY 2
61036 SURREY CENTRAL STN BAY 13
55214 EB 104 AV AT WHALLEY BLVD
55218 EB 104 AV AT 144 ST
55220 EB 104 AV AT 148 ST
55128 GUILDFORD EXCHANGE BAY 1

Southbound:
55131 GUILDFORD EXCHANGE BAY 2
55367 WB 104 AV AT 148 ST
55369 WB 104 AV AT 144 ST
55373 WB 104 AV AT WHALLEY BLVD
61035 SURREY CENTRAL STN BAY 12
54996 KING GEORGE STN BAY 1
54987 SB KING GEORGE BLVD AT 96 AV
55445 SB KING GEORGE BLVD AT 88 AV
55452 SB KING GEORGE BLVD AT 76 AV
55456 NEWTON EXCHANGE BAY 5

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Is the 394 toast once the 96 B-Line comes into effect?

394's schedule is unchanged.

[jlousa]

Don't believe the following document has been posted yet, think it's a good read and has some interesting info in it. Can't say I agree with all of it, but for the most part it seems good.

http://www.translink.ca/~/media/document...trategic_framework_for_consultation.ashx

[bardak]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Don't believe the following document has been posted yet, think it's a good read and has some interesting info in it. Can't say I agree with all of it, but for the most part it seems good.

http://www.translink.ca/~/media/document...trategic_framework_for_consultation.ashx

Just picked out a few of the interesting maps they had included in the report.

First image is a map of all the frequent buses during the peak and non peak. any bus rout that does not have the demand for freqent bus service during the peak is considered a "coverage" route.



The second one is a map of identified goals for rapid transit corridors, b-line like routes, and frequent transit corridors.



this map has a few interesting tidbits on it

• Burnaby mountain gondola is apparently a regional priority now
• B-line up 200th street
• 1 Road and Westminster b-line
• highway 99 b-line

[Mac Write]

Is all that green proposed Skytrain lines? if so drool and will we see all of it completed in the next 30 years?!!!