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  #8541  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 1:36 AM
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I don't know why people keep engaging that poster. His shtick is old. Everyone should know it by heart by now. Basically everything that's not super high class is horrible because it doesn't fit his paradigm of what downtown should be. It's literally one poster that's getting everyone off track every time he doesn't like something.
     
     
  #8542  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 1:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterK View Post
Downtown Los Angeles spans north - south from Temple to Pico (generously). That is 13 blocks. From east - west it spans from Figueroa to Main (with the exception of a couple small areas like LA Live). That is 8 blocks.

13 blocks x 8 blocks.
What you've described is this:



That's not Downtown LA. This is:



You've left out the Arts District, the Fashion District, and Skid Row- the neighborhoods that are the furthest behind and therefore which have the most potential for growth.

But even going by your 13x8 block definition, lets look at that further for a moment.

Lets say there are 5 storefronts on each side of a block, conservatively (although its probably more like 10 on average.)

5 x 4 sides = 20 storefronts per city block

13 x 8 = 104 blocks

104 x 20 = 2,080 storefronts

So over 2,000 storefronts within that 13x8 block sliver-of-DTLA boundary alone. We are in zero danger of that space filling up with chains. Its just not going to happen.
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  #8543  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 1:45 AM
112597jorge 112597jorge is offline
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if this is true, this will be a good step forward.
     
     
  #8544  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 3:26 AM
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:( Goodbye COFFEEBAR :(

Well folks after much speculation, it looks like one of the "pioneers" of Spring St "Coffee Row" has (OFFICIALLY) bit the dust per Downtown Examiner website:

http://downtownexaminer.com/news/acme-bar-group-friends-and-partners/

BREAKING NEWS: Beelman’s Pub COMING SOON!Acme is very excited about their newest venture, Beelman’s Pub, taking the place of Coffee Bar, located at 6th and Spring. The group is very excited about this new project, named after the famed architect of the building, Claude Beelman.

Last edited by Gram3000; Jun 22, 2013 at 3:48 AM.
     
     
  #8545  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 4:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChelseaFC View Post
I don't know why people keep engaging that poster. His shtick is old. Everyone should know it by heart by now. Basically everything that's not super high class is horrible because it doesn't fit his paradigm of what downtown should be. It's literally one poster that's getting everyone off track every time he doesn't like something.
Do you understand I care about Downtown? I'm not thread-bombing or trolling. A downtown development thread shouldn't be just cheerleading for tall buildings. Talking about what development is best for downtown is extremely important. We want things to be as great as they can be in our lifetimes. Not in some distant future where everything we witness now was just a stepping stone. And it's not that I dont want a Nordstrom Rack in downtown. I don't want a Nordstrom Rack on southern Broadway, in May Co bldg. They would go well in that big hole at Fig & 7th (which is actually where they were first considering).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DistrictDirt View Post
You've left out the Arts District, the Fashion District, and Skid Row- the neighborhoods that are the furthest behind and therefore which have the most potential for growth.

Thanks for the math & map of core downtown. I'll use that map often. While I wish those neighborhoods could be brought into real downtown (the walkable, cohesive area) the sad truth is Skid Row prevents any of that from happening.
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  #8546  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 5:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DistrictDirt View Post
You've left out the Arts District, the Fashion District, and Skid Row- the neighborhoods that are the furthest behind and therefore which have the most potential for growth.
I'd actually argue that the Arts District is one of the most developed areas downtown. The area around 3rd and Traction is popping!
     
     
  #8547  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 5:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterK View Post
On (southern) Broadway:
-Ace Hotel took down the scaffolding around the main part of the building, the structure is now dirtier than it was before they put the scaffolding up (I take before/after pics of everything).
-A small structure directly to the left of Ross is being worked on as we speak. It'll be several large apartments I hear..
-The beautiful & historic Tower Theater will likely be the first theater to kick off Broadways worst idea. A nightclub district.
-It looks like the shit tenants of Rialto have closed up shop. Should be any day that we see Urban Outfitters working away on the space.

-Nordstrom Rack will be taking up the majority of the ground floor space of the old May Company building. A hotel will be above. This is worse news than Ross, since it will almost certainly commit Broadway to being the outlet street.
Not all of the theatres on broadway are gonna be legit nightclubs... i think bars and lounges are what fits broadway most... you have to appeal todays crowds... im sorry but i doubt the mass crowd wants the 40's version of a "nightclub"... nobody is saying bring vegas to broadway.. its just turning Broadway into the entertainment district it once was... just todays version

and you must be high to think nordstrom rack is worse news than a ross... its like saying you'd rather have a plastic watch from the coin machine than a michael kors watch
     
     
  #8548  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 6:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DistrictDirt View Post
What you've described is this:



That's not Downtown LA. This is:



You've left out the Arts District, the Fashion District, and Skid Row- the neighborhoods that are the furthest behind and therefore which have the most potential for growth.

But even going by your 13x8 block definition, lets look at that further for a moment.

Lets say there are 5 storefronts on each side of a block, conservatively (although its probably more like 10 on average.)

5 x 4 sides = 20 storefronts per city block

13 x 8 = 104 blocks

104 x 20 = 2,080 storefronts

So over 2,000 storefronts within that 13x8 block sliver-of-DTLA boundary alone. We are in zero danger of that space filling up with chains. Its just not going to happen.
you left out chinatown, el pueblo and union station lol... downtown is bigger
     
     
  #8549  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 6:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesDreamin View Post
you left out chinatown, el pueblo and union station lol... downtown is bigger
Because that isn't technically downtown. Just downtown adjacent
     
     
  #8550  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 6:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illithid Dude View Post
Because that isn't technically downtown. Just downtown adjacent
really?? then why do other websites say that chinatown, el pueblo and union station is in downtown.. those are historical sites of downtown... i think ppl just think its downtown adjacent because its separated by the freeway =/ el pueblo is where the city was born after all and union station is the hub for mass transit into the city
     
     
  #8551  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 6:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesDreamin View Post
really?? then why do other websites say that chinatown, el pueblo and union station is in downtown.. those are historical sites of downtown... i think ppl just think its downtown adjacent because its separated by the freeway =/ el pueblo is where the city was born after all and union station is the hub for mass transit into the city
The 101 killed those sections from being part of true pedestrian downtown. A 101 cap would completely fix this, what a dream that would be. The 110 killed city west. Skid row killed everything east of Main. Arts District is cool, but its just another LA neighborhood in the way that you have to drive there at this point in time.

Which brings me back to pointing out that core (IE pedestrian - no car) downtown is only 13x8 blocks. There aren't many (if any other) department store sized spaces after this one is taken. Take Apple for example. A little over a year ago they were looking to come Downtown, but didn't because they couldn't find a space that was both large enough, and had no columns in it.


I think too many people see Downtown as what is depicted in this map:



lol.
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  #8552  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 7:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterK View Post
Take Apple for example. A little over a year ago they were looking to come Downtown, but didn't because they couldn't find a space that was both large enough, and had no columns in it.
If true, that's very strange. I've been to many Apple stores that have columns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesDreamin View Post
really?? then why do other websites say that chinatown, el pueblo and union station is in downtown.. those are historical sites of downtown... i think ppl just think its downtown adjacent because its separated by the freeway =/ el pueblo is where the city was born after all and union station is the hub for mass transit into the city
Well, I suppose those websites are mistaken. I believe even according to the official DT website DT is defined by the river and the freeways.
     
     
  #8553  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 7:21 AM
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Los Angeles Times map goes a little bit over the freeways to the north and south.


http://projects.latimes.com/mapping-la/neighborhoods/neighborhood/downtown/
     
     
  #8554  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 7:35 AM
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What are we actually discussing here? It hardly matters what the definition of 'downtown' is. It's one guy's opinion of downtown's borders that's getting everyone worked up. Those wanting to see the area improve should care about all of it. Worrying about what some tourism book or internet site considers 'downtown proper' to be seems like a waste of time.
     
     
  #8555  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 1:15 PM
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Obviously there are no "technical" borders to downtown, but regarding the maps, defining downtown based on what people see driving by on the freeway is a pet peeve of mine. It's a bit ridiculous to consider much of the eastern bit to be "downtown", yet not city west. And in my mind Washington/Blue LIne is the southern border, not the 10 fwy. That's what it feels like if you take transit anyway.
     
     
  #8556  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 2:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StethJeff View Post
I get the feeling that Library Tower is gonna remain our signature tower for a looooong time.
that regrettably is apparent when coming across stories like this, from 2 days ago.......

Quote:
The $367.5-million sale of U.S. Bank Tower in downtown Los Angeles, the tallest building in the West, has been completed. Its new owners are Singapore investors Overseas Union Enterprise Ltd. The developer and landlord also owns commercial properties including, offices, shopping centers and hotels in Singapore, Malaysia and the People’s Republic of China.

At 72 stories, the circular U.S. Bank Tower has commanded the city skyline since it was completed in 1989 and is one of the best-known office buildings in the country. It was previously named Library Tower and also First Interstate World Center.

The skyscraper designed by the New York firm of star architect I.M. Pei is only 56% leased, the new owner said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brudy View Post
Here's an old shot:
the former may co bldg may be a tough one to deal with if the owner wants to convert it for hotel guests or residents. That's cuz both its floor heights & floor sizes are very large, even huge. but mainly a problem with the latter, since a lot of the useable floor space is towards the middle of the bldg. No way will someone living or staying in that bldg as a resident or hotel guest...dozens & dozens of feet away from the bldg's perimeter where windows are located.... want to be in a dark, windowless location. the owner would have to cut huge interior light wells into the middle of the bldg to solve that dilemma.

I still remember being in the may co bldg yrs ago & was impressed by how high all the ceilings were, even past the 1st floor. I think the upper levels are tall enough that if they switched them to apts, condos or hotel rms, they could make them split level with 2 levels per each floor. but, again, the bigger problem is that each floor is huge & far away from windows, like a warehouse.

the may co was built to be a traditional dept store & ideally it would be converted back to that type of usage. but no way will its location on broadway....or even in dt overall.....in the future be so jumping with shoppers who have $$ that any existing dept stores will want to use it, esp a fancy one like bloomingdales or a more middle level one like macys.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterK View Post
Do you understand I care about Downtown? I'm not thread-bombing or trolling. A downtown development thread shouldn't be just cheerleading for tall buildings. Talking about what development is best for downtown is extremely important. We want things to be as great as they can be in our lifetimes.
I'm puzzled by your take on things. I don't understand why you're unhappy about not just a nordstroms rack being on broadway but ALSO the street having nightclubs too....at least if they're nice clubs & not the type of places that attract troublemakers. I'm even more puzzled by such a POV when so much of broadway still is not much better than this....




I'm reminded of all the forumers who get so when a new proj isn't taller, or has too much enclosed parking, or a lack of stores on the 1st floor, or is designed in a way that prevents it from winning a Pritzker prize for great architecture. even more so....& since easy mentions what the average person's impression of dt is as they zoom by on all the fwys that surround it.....when too much of the hood isn't much more alluring than this.....



maps.google.com
     
     
  #8557  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 2:33 PM
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Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
I'm puzzled by your take on things. I don't understand why you're unhappy about not just a nordstroms rack being on broadway but ALSO the street having nightclubs too....at least if they're nice clubs & not the type of places that attract troublemakers. I'm even more puzzled by such a POV when so much of broadway still is not much better than this....
Because I actually live in the neighborhood & know what Exchange, Mayan, Belasco, Icon, etc, are like.
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  #8558  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 5:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterK View Post
Thanks for the math & map of core downtown.
Okay, I can agree on that. Core downtown is a much better term for the boundaries you defined than just saying "downtown".

Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterK View Post
Which brings me back to pointing out that core (IE pedestrian - no car) downtown is only 13x8 blocks. There aren't many (if any other) department store sized spaces after this one is taken.
You are leaving out all the buildings that have yet to be built (but surely will) on many of the parking lots in the area. Many of these will be mixed use with ground floor retail.

Also this 13x8 block boundary you defined is not going to be static because Downtown is not frozen in time in 2013. You have to think longitudinally.

In a couple years we'll be talking about Los Angeles St as the border of skid row. And in another 5 years it'll be San Pedro St. You also have development pressure radiating outwards from Little Tokyo and the Arts District. I'd be very surprised if Skid Row hasn't vastly shrunk in a decade from now. Hell in 10 years we could be seeing development south of Pico, or a freeway cap park over the 101 or the 110 that would expand your borders far north of Temple or far west of Fig.
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  #8559  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 8:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterK View Post
And how big is Manhattan again?
Not that we need another city vs city comparison, but as I recall Manhattan has a downtown.. which, for whatever reason, might be about 8 x 13 blocks. Just sayin'.
     
     
  #8560  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2013, 9:04 PM
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Ava Little Tokyo from earlier today. Columns are up for the first floor on about half of the building, and they're nice and tall - at least 17 ft. This shot taken from the corner of 2nd and Los Angeles.


Image by me and my iPhone
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