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Originally Posted by Spitfiredude
Great analyzing. Like a couple have said on here, I am keeping my fingers crossed that the design for the State Farm project is very conceptual, so I would wait to see in the coming weeks/months if anything changes.
As for Hanover, what a complete disappointment! I am excited that nearly 350 units will be added (that means HUGE chance for grocery store), but ONLY 6 stories!? How boring...10-15 would have done the job.
Not only should AMC fill up space, but it should also bring in more retail to the southern part of Mill Ave/DTT. Hopefully we see a vertical development soon on the lot on the SE corner of Mill and 7th street. 10-20 stories would be appropriate there.
Speaking of lots there aren't many left along the Mill corridor:
Mill & 3rd street
Mill & 7th street
Luckily there is still plenty of space along Farmer and Ash Avenue. I hope we see development kick up around here. If we don't see 8+ floor developments along Ash between 5th & 3rd streets, there is practically no chance to see the skyline between the lake and W6 (future University w/hotel) connect.
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Yes, I have been saying for quite some time that my main issue with many of the new proposals is the longterm impact on Tempe's skyline and, more importantly, density. Argo, HFL III, Hanover, Block 12, etc. are all fine projects on the surface, but there is very little vacant land left in the immediate vicinity of Mill, and 6 story projects will limit density in the long-run, particularly when there is already a lack of residential options- the only high rise is mainly marketed to students, and the rest of the residential development is going on Apache.
Future Dense/High Rise Development
Unfortunately, the situation isn't any better on Farmer/Ash. Farmer, which once was meant as a gateway between skyscrapers on Mill and dense, low rise neighborhoods to the west, is now becoming filled with low rise senior housing, as another (even smaller) project is underway. Ash/Uni, once slated for a 19ish story condo project on top of a grocer, is now going to house a 1 sorry grocer at most and parking for Chase. Hopefully, the streetcar encourages real development heading north on Ash (in between the sea of massive parking garages), but I don't think high rises are likely or would even be appropriate - this area was meant to be a buffer/transition in terms of heights. Maybe over near US Airways could work?
Finally, with Hanover getting the green light, hopes of a real skyline to balance out W6 are pretty much gone. Marina Heights will at least help visually create something nice and dramatic along the lake, but downtown projects have just not been bringing in that kind of height. Maybe Mill/7th and the University Square lot will go the route of Mill/Uni and we can get a few 12ish story apartments mixed in with low rise commercial, but I think we are more likely to see just the latter. Mill/3rd seems like it might take ages for any investment... that northern portion of downtown is still so disconnected, with the 3+ Mill proposals failing, the poor integration of HFL into downtown/the street, and the massive parking structures that fill the areas near the commercial buildings like Gateway.
Again, I am sorry if that is negative. But, while the boom was a bit unrealistic in terms of demographics and heights (luxury condos instead of market rentals; 30-stories instead of 15), the planning was actually dead-on with the variety of hotel, residential, commercial, amenities, etc. being proposed and the location of each, with a heavy focus on bringing residents and foot traffic to the core. Some of these new projects, while still urban and nicely designed and so on, are a consolation that I think could be longterm misses. A few examples:
W6: seasonal, mixed income instead of permanent, high income residents
Hanover: low rise with one use instead of high rise mixed use (total miss for height, density and mixed use project in the core and on the future streetcar path)
Farmer: two low rise senior housing/low income projects instead of midrise market rentals and public amenities like the Tempe library branch that was included in the original proposal (huge loss for the longterm)
Ash/Uni: parking lot or garage and *maybe* 1 story grocery instead of high rise/high income residential over grocery
College/Uni: low rise Church extension instead of midrise seasonal/mixed income residential
The Positive
Ending on a positive note, just reiterating that Mill/Uni will be great as long as the midrise/high rise hotel on the corner is built. Additionally, while the hotel proposal for the theater was gorgeous, the AMC is a great addition, as is all of the retail and commercial filling up existing space along Mill. Downtown Tempe is doing great, I just wish the new projects/construction were planned a bit better. Because once these lots are filled, and there are very few permanent residents, amenities like grocers will look elsewhere. And, so more projects will pop up outside of the core, outside of the light rail's reach, etc. Thus, why I wish the streetcar would go all the way down Rio Salado instead of Apache, so that at least if downtown land gets filled with low rises, the lake (which will likely continue to attract the next wave of development) would at least be connected to the core and encourage TOD instead of anti-urban high rises like the Biltmore area, for example, or HFL even. But, alas... the streetcar will end west of Packard if it even gets built on Rio at all.
ASU and students are just not the permanent, longterm solution... If that is the vision the city wants, then great! But, that's not what the city says it wants, so their actions need to start supporting that. Just my opinion that I am more than happy to debate and discuss, and would LOVE to be proven wrong on by way of new proposals.
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The shade they provide is haphazard and doesn't really cover the entire outdoor food court area. The new power parasols will be much better. I would be surprised if they kept the Pringles...or maybe, it will add visually to the power parasols if they are kept. I have never paid attention, and have rarely been by the MU at night, but are the Pringles lit up at night? I was told different colored LEDs light them up.
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