ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[simms3_redux]

Originally Posted by StatenIslander237

I agree and disagree with this...with projects like 280 Elizabeth, Altanta is certainly making new architectural strides. However, in a city lacking density in several intown areas, the fact that they can build dense townhomes that look like they've been there forever literally flabbergasts me. The infill townhomes in Glenwood Park I'm also a huge fan of, and they're doing similar things in Houston's Heights area, to which I was also like OMFG.

Welcome to dense living club, sunbelt cities.



Also, is Ponce City Market really this far away from Bank of America Plaza/Peachtree Street? For some reason I imagined the core of the city to be less spread out...I knew Atlanta had sprawl, but for some reason this photo surprised me a lot.

I totally disagree. As you noted with PCM, there is simply a lot of "space" between developments, which hinders walkability and hurts the pedestrian scale. These townhomes might be cute to some, especially to people who are simply not accustomed to so much "house" for so little and with garage, in an urban environment, but the layout does not promote walkability at all. The fact that it's along the Beltline and in Inman Park (albeit on the wrong side of the village/Beltline if you ever get a chance to see them in person) means that the residents will walk around at least somewhat, but typically this is exactly the kind of development that breaks up even further the chance for continuity in urban design in Atlanta. It hurts rather than helps. The parcel is oddly shaped, so the limitations are there, but I would have preferred more density. $500K townhouse in Atlanta draws the same type of person who would live in a $5M home in NYC or SF and then complain about further development, etc. The scale is simply different (plus these people will have multiple cars and multiple garages...an added element that I predict means that their complaints will be based around "increased traffic from increased density").

[shivtim]

Agree to disagree. Seems like those of us who still live in Atlanta don't have any complaints about new, dense, family-friendly townhouses being wedged in to a small parcel next to the beltline. This development is about 9000 units per sq mile, by the way.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Agree to disagree. Seems like those of us who still live in Atlanta don't have any complaints about new, dense, family-friendly townhouses being wedged in to a small parcel next to the beltline. This development is about 9000 units per sq mile, by the way.

Count me in. Some people get a little snobby about Atlanta developments when they move to an older/more densely built city. We aren't trying to be like San Francisco or any other better (in some people's opinions) city...and I have to think that most of us are quite happy with the current development patterns. People need to let Atlanta be Atlanta and stop with the condescension.

[ChrisInmanPark]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

I totally disagree. As you noted with PCM, there is simply a lot of "space" between developments, which hinders walkability and hurts the pedestrian scale. These townhomes might be cute to some, especially to people who are simply not accustomed to so much "house" for so little and with garage, in an urban environment, but the layout does not promote walkability at all. The fact that it's along the Beltline and in Inman Park (albeit on the wrong side of the village/Beltline if you ever get a chance to see them in person) means that the residents will walk around at least somewhat, but typically this is exactly the kind of development that breaks up even further the chance for continuity in urban design in Atlanta. It hurts rather than helps. The parcel is oddly shaped, so the limitations are there, but I would have preferred more density. $500K townhouse in Atlanta draws the same type of person who would live in a $5M home in NYC or SF and then complain about further development, etc. The scale is simply different (plus these people will have multiple cars and multiple garages...an added element that I predict means that their complaints will be based around "increased traffic from increased density").

These parcel where the townhomes sit were marked as single family in the Old Fourth Ward Master plan years ago.

http://georgiaplanning.org/pdfs/2009_awards/old_fourth_ward__plan_document3.pdf

The goal was to increase the stock of single family home in the hopes of bringing in more wealthy families that would be enrolled in the zoned elementary school, Hope Hill. Actually a lot of my O4W neighbors were upset when they changed from single family, detached homes, to townhomes because they feared it would not attract families with children. Which I think is ridiculous as there are already families with children living in the completed townhomes as in many other townhomes around Atlanta.

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

You are Division I like GT and UGA. But you haven't been an FBS school. You were basically Div I AA in football.

You are moving to the Sun Belt Conference in 2014 which will make you an FBS school, eligible for bowls.

So now teams like Alabama will pay you $500,000 to get an easy win on their schedule...

GSU moved to the Sun Belt in every sport but football already, and we're playing a Sun Belt schedule this season, not starting in 2014. As far as playing big schools, I hope Alabama (twice), Oregon, and West Virginia count

[Pessimistic Observer]

Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East

GSU moved to the Sun Belt in every sport but football already, and we're playing a Sun Belt schedule this season, not starting in 2014. As far as playing big schools, I hope Alabama (twice), Oregon, and West Virginia count

those were all road games here's hoping with the football move to sunbelt one day gsu will be able to get a home game with a acc or even dare I say it sec team.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

These townhomes might be cute to some, especially to people who are simply not accustomed to so much "house" for so little and with garage, in an urban environment, but the layout does not promote walkability at all.

This sounds extremely arrogant to me.

For all we know, some of these townhomes may have been purchased by people moving in from the suburbs that actually downsized to live there. It's happening all over the Eastside now.

[micropundit]

more detailed conceptual design for the new Atlanta Falcons stadium was approved Monday by the Georgia World Congress Center Authority’s Stadium Development Committee.

The revised conceptual design by 360 Architecture, which expands upon the proposed “Pantheon” concept presented in April, will be presented to the GWCCA’s board for approval on Tuesday.Bill Johnson, 360’s senior principal, showed new sketches of the design and how it would sit on the “south site” adjacent to the Georgia Dome, which will be demolished once the new $1 billion stadium is scheduled to open in 2017.

Johnson also shared the latest details of the size of the proposed stadium. It will be a total of 1.8 million square feet that will seat about 70,000 people. There will be 180 suites compared to the Georgia Dome’s 162 suites. It also will have about 7,500 club seats compared to the Georgia Dome’s 5,174 club seats.



Slideshow: http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/...sign-gets-committee.html?s=image_gallery

[simms3_redux]

So the gist I'm getting is that I'm arrogant for having the opinion that the Highland Park "attached single family homes" have a site plan and feature list and target market that aren't ideal for urbanity or walkability? LoL



Puhlease! I happen to also not like "faux traditional" or "new made to look old" when it's done on the cheap (these are selling for ~$200psf, if that...which is in line with the construction methods used for these particular homes).
And with this spread out site plan, 2 garages per home, front and back lawns, etc, I'd hardly call these townhomes...more like attached single family.

I think they are more fitting where the development pattern already consists of these things (Brookhaven, Buckhead, Sandy Springs, parts of Decatur, etc). I'm not sorry for holding a higher standard for what
I wish Inman Park would become, and it's not because I became snobby once I moved away - I'd have the same opinion if I still lived there!

And if 2,300-3,400 SF is "downsizing" (and I know for Atl that it is), well then golly gee these suburban families are making HUGEEE adjustments moving into the uber urban jungle that is Inman Park.
LoL can we please get real? Of course I don't expect Atl to transform its sprawling mess into SF or NYC, but I would hope that we can do better in the urban villages such as Inman Park.

And the million dollar question: why do these people need a separate "park" with the Beltline right there? This is not being arrogant or snobby or elitist. This is being rational.

[shivtim]

^Why are you even still posting in the Atlanta forum? We don't really care what your opinion is. Or, do you have some more "extra special insider information because I'm awesomer than you normal people and I'm super important in the development world even though I'm just a racist 22 year old" you'd like to share with us? Get thee over to City Data, and stay there.

My favorite Simms quotes, lest we forget:
"Atlanta almost made me racist. Atlanta blinded me to what's normal behavior. Only in Atlanta can the "young professional/upscale" areas like Midtown and Buckhead be so ghetto."
"Now I will say that as a white guy with a northern European/Anglo-Saxon background, I am not very comfortable mixing in with the hip hop crowd. Many others with my background feel that certain places in Atlanta have become "overrun" and taken over by rappers. Racist on the surface, but frankly it's natural for both sides to feel skepticism."
"Now I will say that being fairly active in various organizations in the city as a volunteer, I wish that more African Americans were also active."
"Atlanta just seems so slow, hot, dirty, ghetto, crime-ridden and uneducated..."
"I'm done being optimistic, hopeful, and done making excuses for this city/metro."
"The friggin ghetto culture Atlanta is so well known for."
"the fact that you all think I'm some racist asshole for bringing up the term "hood-rich" and my favorite, "ghetto chic," and crime in the city is simply childish at best. "
"No other American city puts as many conservative or lily white hipster Millennials and as many hip hop blacks together in one smallish area as Atlanta."
"there is some rap thing going on downtown, which is where I went to catch a bit of hectic city life, and man is it a turnoff when there are a bunch of rappers in town."
"As a student dropping a boat load of money to attend the school, I for one am glad that I am in my "own little world" on campus rather than interacting with Woodruff park and bums every day."

[pawelra]

Guys just do what I have always been doing and just don't read his comments and ignore him, don't replay, just ignore.

[simms3_redux]

Edit.

I've spoken to a mod on the ongoing issue we have here. I suggest anyone who has a problem with me, report me. My post history is always there for backup, and frankly I have nothing to hide - far worse things have been said publicly about Atlanta on this very forum by others. I also suggest anyone who views this as a bystander and sees this vicious personal attacking for what it is, call it out. 99% of my posts regarding Atlanta are constructive and positive, and I've certainly boosted the city publicly over the years, among other things - not that anyone should feel obligated to boost a city, or spend time taking photos and editing them and posting them, or construction updates, etc. People should be allowed to be totally non-productive otherwise, bring no information or quality thought to any matters, and trash talk others when they feel like it because they're so offended by a very commonly used word. PM me. Report me. Don't be immature about this. I will also be compiling any personal insults hurled my way - that's "antisocial behavior" and not acceptable by forum rules. I don't think anyone views me as a troll and understands the situation here.

As for me - I still return to Atlanta. I have friends, coworkers, and now family in Atlanta. I work for a company still doing development deals in Atlanta. I spent a huge chunk of my life in Atlanta and I still monitor what goes on in Atlanta. I WILL occasionally post here, and unlike many of you who are so offended by me, I will bring something to the table every so often (even if that's an opinion that opens up a discussion about a DEVELOPMENT). I suggest we all forgive and forget and get over it - I'm very far from a bad person. Opinionated yes, evil and bad, no.

[Libertarian]

Simms, you remind me of what a Northern Italian nobility said about the situation there - "We're pandas in the zoo!" Whether in Milan, SF or ATL, we are pandas in the zoo. I think the neighborhood model that's been evolved in ATL is more realistic than SF. Even in the burbs there is assimilation and community. The racial and socioeconomic disparities in the SF area are huge and bipolar. I'd never want to live in a city like SF because of what the future holds.

[L41A]

Originally Posted by shivtim

^Why are you even still posting in the Atlanta forum? We don't really care what your opinion is. Or, do you have some more "extra special insider information because I'm awesomer than you normal people and I'm super important in the development world even though I'm just a racist 22 year old" you'd like to share with us? Get thee over to City Data, and stay there.

My favorite Simms quotes, lest we forget:
"Atlanta almost made me racist. Atlanta blinded me to what's normal behavior. Only in Atlanta can the "young professional/upscale" areas like Midtown and Buckhead be so ghetto."
"Now I will say that as a white guy with a northern European/Anglo-Saxon background, I am not very comfortable mixing in with the hip hop crowd. Many others with my background feel that certain places in Atlanta have become "overrun" and taken over by rappers. Racist on the surface, but frankly it's natural for both sides to feel skepticism."
"Now I will say that being fairly active in various organizations in the city as a volunteer, I wish that more African Americans were also active."
"Atlanta just seems so slow, hot, dirty, ghetto, crime-ridden and uneducated..."
"I'm done being optimistic, hopeful, and done making excuses for this city/metro."
"The friggin ghetto culture Atlanta is so well known for."
"the fact that you all think I'm some racist asshole for bringing up the term "hood-rich" and my favorite, "ghetto chic," and crime in the city is simply childish at best. "
"No other American city puts as many conservative or lily white hipster Millennials and as many hip hop blacks together in one smallish area as Atlanta."
"there is some rap thing going on downtown, which is where I went to catch a bit of hectic city life, and man is it a turnoff when there are a bunch of rappers in town."
"As a student dropping a boat load of money to attend the school, I for one am glad that I am in my "own little world" on campus rather than interacting with Woodruff park and bums every day."

Thanks ShivTim for pointing these quotes out. I knew there were many. I had read most of them before. After a reading a couple of them, I took whatever Simms3 had with a grain of salt no matter how much insider information or knowledge he may or think he has. It amazes me why he still has to chime in so much on Atlanta - especially since he has moved cross country and shouldn't have to worry his little head about Atlanta.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

And the million dollar question: why do these people need a separate "park" with the Beltline right there?

Because the idiotic City of Atlanta zoning required it (UOSR) and if they wanted to get out of it they'd be delayed another quarter due to the variance process.

This said, I'm not opposed to townhouses on the site, but the plan is pretty bad. The only saving grace is that they front the BeltLine a lot better than anything else does to-date.

[Libertarian]

why do these people need a separate "park"

They gotta walk the dog?

[ATL_J]

I agree with Simms on this issue, the construction looks cheap and the layout is horrible. Look further down the trail for an example of better implementation of a "town home" community can be. Granted, it is an extremely awkward lot, its better than nothing, and its nice to see people moving in town.

[Nanosolar]

Ok folks, lets look at the bigger picture here. Someone is building 2 dozen townhomes in an area of town experiencing unprecedented growth and investment. What made this possible? The Atlanta Beltline. The Beltline has raised the bar on what we expect concerning intown developments. No more suburban WalMarts. No more expanded highways. No more white flight. In fact what we have is Atlanta living up to its name yet again and reinventing itself as one of the major hubs of commerce in the Western hemisphere.

Do I want more high rise condos and apartments? Yes. Would an apartment building work here? Possibly, but as we know, Atlanta has certain parking requirements and the deck would have sullied the view. Those townhomes look great when I run down the Beltline and they add to the diversity of buildings and sites on the route.

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East

GSU moved to the Sun Belt in every sport but football already, and we're playing a Sun Belt schedule this season, not starting in 2014. As far as playing big schools, I hope Alabama (twice), Oregon, and West Virginia count

That's how the lower teams make money. College football is a pretty sordid business. These kids at GSU have no shot at the NFL and they are going to suffer numerous injuries just to get those paychecks from the big schools.

[Tuckerman]

The concepts of "walkability" and "density" need some careful thinking and analysis if we are to understand them in light of current metro developments. Cites and large population centers that are older and did not develop around the auto are essentially different city forms and will continue to be so-called walkable in their core. However, their outskirts, and so-called suburban areas, developed around the auto and share many of the same characteristics as the newer auto-oriented cities like LA, ATL, etc. In reality, most people, in most big metro areas live in these lower density, so-termed less walkable areas. Perhaps it is time to give up on the utopian notions of the "new urbanism" and come to grips with the cities we have and the structural characteristics that define most of them.