LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[Mojeda101]

Originally Posted by Gram3000

Is it just me or do I count 35 floors? I'll take it

[Valyrian Steel]

It will be 33 floors.

[Mojeda101]

Originally Posted by eclipse

It will be 33 floors.

[ConstructDTLA]

Originally Posted by Westsidelife

It's funny because I've grown to like skyscrapers less and less. I honestly find the fascination with height a bit juvenile.

Give me a choice of London or Chicago, and I'm taking London's intimate-scaled built environment over Chicago's soaring skyscrapers ten times out of ten.

But really, I'm talking about quality of construction with DC's buildings. You never see anything shitty, not even in the suburbs.

I love skyscrapers, but I'll never complain about DTLA getting shorter infill buildings (7 - 15 stories). When you're actually living in (a) Downtown (and not viewing from afar) it doesn't make a difference if the building is 20 or 70 stories. The first 10 are really what you see day to day..

[Gram3000]

IMO, DT & LA in general just needs to "catch up" with creating a dynamic & phenomenal skyline...something that will make the rest of the world remember that LA is not just palm trees, Hollywood & ocean but in all its multi-nodal nature that it has one prime skyline (DT) that demands attention & admiration. Just enough buildings placed in locations that will fill in the missing teeth from the east/ west viewpoints while creating various peaks or midtown nyc like density when viewed from the SW/ SE. Maybe it will take 30 more 500 - 700 footers or maybe itll just take 10 with 50 6-15 story bldgs sprinkled in between to create the human scale, only time will tell!

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Mojeda101

Is it just me or do I count 35 floors? I'll take it

I count no more than 32, possibly 33 if one is being generous.

I'm puzzled if the devlpr actually has upped the size of the proj. If they did, then is that due to greater confidence in the amt of demand for housing in dt, or cuz they're trying to make the proj pencil out better?

btw, thanks for your pics. it will be increasingly exciting to see all the changes as they're coming closer to completion in about 18 or so months.

I can think of only one proj that may break ground in the next several months, that being the apt bldg at the corner of 2nd St & san Pedro st in little tokyo. actually, that proj is supposed to begin construction in the next few wks, but no telling how accurate such timelines are.

Ppl like Hunterk are correct when they note that when someone is actually in dtla.....right there, standing on the spot, looking at things directly....the matter of whether bldgs are taller or shorter loses its meaning or importance. The first thing that often strikes me when I'm actually in the hood is how so many locations....even today....throughout dt still need to be filled in & cleaned up. that fact is one reason why a few months ago I did my little aerial maps of new devlpt in dt. I needed to clarify to me, if not others, exactly why I feel the way I do when I'm actually in dt & not envisioning it from miles away.

to threehundred's pic of the town where he lives today, I'll offer this counter pic of what really needs to be the issue in LA. The problem here isn't that bldgs aren't taller, or that they're not deserving of a Pritzker prize. The bigger problem is evident in a view like this....



davidkean.com

^ the one thing that will make that view less is to remember what that area was like just a few yrs ago, before LA live & the new ritz carlton hotel had been built. or even the wonderful apt bldgs of gh palmer, when instead of the sight of least somewhat neutral rooftops of his medici apt bldgs & the small park next to them, there would have been nothing but parking lots & a few rundown old bldgs.

[Wilcal]

Originally Posted by BOYCOTT 90210

Lyke omg lets make it a park!!

It was just an observation. No one expects an open public space at this location. It is neither in the plans nor economically feasible. But truth be known, there are many open parking lots and existing underutilized buildings (some of which are quite ugly) in downtown Los Angeles which can be used to build a hotel/office structure. There is really no need to be sarcastic--however watery.

[Valyrian Steel]

Originally Posted by citywatch

to threehundred's pic of the town where he lives today, I'll offer this counter pic of what really needs to be the issue in LA. The problem here isn't that bldgs aren't taller, or that they're not deserving of a Pritzker prize. The bigger problem is evident in a view like this....

Oh the humanity! I never knew downtown had parking lots. I'm glad you finally pointed that out!

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by Westsidelife

ThreeHundred, I know what Chicago looks like. Thanks.

Congratulations.

Anyway, speaking of parks, the Spring Street Park opens on Monday.

[Wally West]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

Anyway, speaking of parks, the Spring Street Park opens on Monday.

From what I've seen so far, the park is greener than I expected it to be.

[sings twin]

Great update Mojeda101 . Thanks for the effort.

[alki]

Originally Posted by LiveandDieinLA

Buuuuuut I've lived in Los Angeles all of my 23 years, love it dearly, but I most certainly agree
if Los Angeles had more so called "drab" buildings of brick and stone in all central and surrounding neighborhoods, these brick buildings would be much appreciated
currently in the AD, as much of you know the project (sorry don't know the exact name or developer) on 3rd by One Sante Fe and next door to the Sci-Arch buildings is the large apartment building complex that the developers are trying to adhere to the existing surroundings
if more of this sort of mind set was taken throughout old and historic downtown we would be lucky for it
LA needs to stop the easy development of these lame cookie cutter, multi colored apartments (multi colored building for the sake of having a multi colored building)
and adhere to some more aspirational design....
and in this sense the word aspirational is almost hypocritical because we need a renaissance of beautiful 7-10 story brick buildings with art nouveau finishes in DT adjacent neighborhoods

The thing is 'local' architecture is shaped in part by the cheapest bldg materials available in the area. A lot of Chicago's bldgs were clad in brick because brick was very affordable; there is a similar story in the PNW where wood and brick were affordable; and in LA, it was stucco. So its not surprising that stucco is more common in LA than say in Pittsburgh.

As for the design of bldgs, I think I may have become too picky....in fact, all of us on this forum may be too picky. I often wonder if we would have liked the bldgs we consider architectural/historical gems on Broadway when they were first built. These days I worry less about individual design and more on how the bldg relates to the street and the rest of the built environment in the immediate vicinity.

[LA/OCman]

Originally Posted by alki

The thing is 'local' architecture is shaped in part by the cheapest bldg materials available in the area. A lot of Chicago's bldgs were clad in brick because brick was very affordable; there is a similar story in the PNW where wood and brick were affordable; and in LA, it was stucco. So its not surprising that stucco is more common in LA than say in Pittsburgh.

As for the design of bldgs, I think I may have become too picky....in fact, all of us on this forum may be too picky. I often wonder if we would have liked the bldgs we consider architectural/historical gems on Broadway when they were first built. These days I worry less about individual design and more on how the bldg relates to the street and the rest of the built environment in the immediate vicinity.

I agree with you, especially your last sentence. Also, having lived in Chicago, the climate has a lot to do with it. Brick keeps it cooler in the hot, humid summers and warmer in the cold winters. Most of those buildings in Chicago were built before central air. I think the classic spanish courtyard buildings in Los Angeles built in the 20s and 30s are more comparable to courtyard buildings elsewhere. You don't have those Downtown...but they proliferate in Hollywood, Mid City and especially along Sycamore adjacent to La Brea. I wouldn't mind seeing something like those the on the outskirts of Downtown...even a modern, taller version...but not a replica. The problem is the price of land in today's environment.

[mdiederi]

Originally Posted by alki

The thing is 'local' architecture is shaped in part by the cheapest bldg materials available in the area. A lot of Chicago's bldgs were clad in brick because brick was very affordable; there is a similar story in the PNW where wood and brick were affordable; and in LA, it was stucco. So its not surprising that stucco is more common in LA than say in Pittsburgh.

Stucco isn't really a structural material, it's just a plaster used as a finishing coat moisture barrier, or can be moulded into ornaments, but you don't use it by itself as cladding, genuine stucco was usually used to cover adobe brick walls or wood siding. Probably 99.9999999999% of the so-called "stucco" cladding on buildings in LA built since the late 1960s is not real stucco, it's a synthetic coating made to look like stucco and is usually covering an EIFS composite. They can simulate the finish on that stuff to look almost like anything, but the stucco look is popular because of the romantic adobe heritage in the southwest (i.e., the Spanish missions in California). However, if you look at the old 13-floor buildings in the historic core, you'll see that very few of them have stucco coatings, they have exposed bricks or stone or concrete finishes, because EIFS and glass curtain walls weren't invented yet, and adobe and wood aren't durable enough to clad buildings that size. Most of the rest of LA's shorter structures pre-1960s were stick-built and stucco was used a lot as a moisture barrier for the wood walls, and EIFS with synthetic stucco used since then because people got used to that look. Regions with extremely harsh weather conditions liked to build their shorter buildings with bricks for better endurance against the elements.

[bobbyv]

To keep with the subject of stucco I've noticed that many houses in south central and adjacent pre WW2 cities like Huntington Park, South Gate, Inglewood, etc have many houses that are covered with stucco yet for the majority underneath is old wood siding which in my opinion is much more pleasing to the eyes and gives the neighborhoods more character and rustic/noir look.

[bobbyv]

^^^ For this reason I hope a lot of these neighborhoods get gentrified and their new owners will uncover all of these old houses that have been covered up, Hispanic neighborhoods are extremely guilty of covering up wood siding and to top it off paint it some pastel color smh

[Valyrian Steel]

Pretty much all that's left of the Wilshire Grand is that little chunk on the Wilshire side.


IMG_0004 by Nightsky Emperor, on Flickr


IMG_0014 by Nightsky Emperor, on Flickr

Courtyard Marriott


IMG_0007 by Nightsky Emperor, on Flickr


IMG_0008 by Nightsky Emperor, on Flickr


IMG_0010 by Nightsky Emperor, on Flickr

Pics by me.

[alki]

Originally Posted by LA/OCman

I agree with you, especially your last sentence. Also, having lived in Chicago, the climate has a lot to do with it. Brick keeps it cooler in the hot, humid summers and warmer in the cold winters. Most of those buildings in Chicago were built before central air. I think the classic spanish courtyard buildings in Los Angeles built in the 20s and 30s are more comparable to courtyard buildings elsewhere. You don't have those Downtown...but they proliferate in Hollywood, Mid City and especially along Sycamore adjacent to La Brea. I wouldn't mind seeing something like those the on the outskirts of Downtown...even a modern, taller version...but not a replica. The problem is the price of land in today's environment.

There were courtyard bldgs DT as well but most if not all are long gone. And bldgs built pre AC were frequently built by positioning windows to allow wind flow that brought a cross breeze in a room. That was one of the reasons for a courtyard. Courtyards also allowed the growing of small trees and shrubs which also cooled a bldg in summer. I too would like to see more of them built but like you say, they are a luxury these days with land so expensive.

[alki]

Originally Posted by mdiederi

Stucco isn't really a structural material, it's just a plaster used as a finishing coat moisture barrier, or can be moulded into ornaments, but you don't use it by itself as cladding, genuine stucco was usually used to cover adobe brick walls or wood siding. Probably 99.9999999999% of the so-called "stucco" cladding on buildings in LA built since the late 1960s is not real stucco, it's a synthetic coating made to look like stucco and is usually covering an EIFS composite. They can simulate the finish on that stuff to look almost like anything, but the stucco look is popular because of the romantic adobe heritage in the southwest (i.e., the Spanish missions in California). However, if you look at the old 13-floor buildings in the historic core, you'll see that very few of them have stucco coatings, they have exposed bricks or stone or concrete finishes, because EIFS and glass curtain walls weren't invented yet, and adobe and wood aren't durable enough to clad buildings that size. Most of the rest of LA's shorter structures pre-1960s were stick-built and stucco was used a lot as a moisture barrier for the wood walls, and EIFS with synthetic stucco used since then because people got used to that look. Regions with extremely harsh weather conditions liked to build their shorter buildings with bricks for better endurance against the elements.

I never meant to say to say that stucco was a structural material. I specifically used the term clad. Stucco is a cladding just as brick these days is a cladding. I think stucco was popular in LA as in most of the SW because the materials used to make original stucco.......sand, lime and water..........were in abundance in the SW and hence cheap to use. The original adobes may have been solid stucco but that was long ago.

Bricks are no longer used in LA except as cladding [if at all] because they do not do well in earthquakes. And even in areas where quakes are not a problem, builders use half bricks as cladding. They are not structural. During quakes, structural bricks fall apart fairly quickly.

Like I said in my original post, I think people in LA get tired of stucco or stucco simulation because its so commonplace. And like someone else posted, there are so many bad examples where a perfectly fine bldg is covered up with stucco, making it less attractive.

However, I think the criticism of stucco is over stated.......as you pointed out, most stucco these days is simulated stucco and not the real thing. Its just become a common way to do a facade treatment......maybe too common. I am not sure why LA architects are not more imaginative.

[alki]

Brigham Yen Featured on FOX 11 News: Discusses “Downtown LA’s Renaissance”

http://brighamyen.com/2013/06/13/brigham...news-discusses-downtown-las-renaissance/