Canadian Retail Thread

[MolsonExport]

I remember a time when Steinberg's was the leading supermarket brand in Quebec. Sam Steinberg died, and the family bickered while Rome burned. The pieces fell into the hands of Metro/Provigo, under the good offices of the Quebec Provincial government. Provigo took over most of what was once the Dominion brand in Quebc. The Quebec government vetoed earlier attempts by Loblaws to purchase the Provigo brand. Ironically, for a while, we recently had Metro all over Ontario (after the purchase of A&P/Dominion and related brands). Perhaps Metro thought that Ontarians would behave like Quebeckers (tongue in cheek reference to another post), but the rebranding was a total fiasco. Many Metros have closed (the majority in London have either closed, been sold, or have been rebranded as "Food Basics").

[davidivivid]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I remember a time when Steinberg's was the leading supermarket brand in Quebec. Sam Steinberg died, and the family bickered while Rome burned. The pieces fell into the hands of Metro/Provigo, under the good offices of the Quebec Provincial government. Provigo took over most of what was once the Dominion brand in Quebc. The Quebec government vetoed earlier attempts by Loblaws to purchase the Provigo brand. Ironically, for a while, we recently had Metro all over Ontario (after the purchase of A&P/Dominion and related brands). Perhaps Metro thought that Ontarians would behave like Quebeckers (tongue in cheek reference to another post), but the rebranding was a total fiasco. Many Metros have closed (the majority in London have either closed, been sold, or have been rebranded as "Food Basics").

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I remember a time when Steinberg's was the leading supermarket brand in Quebec. Sam Steinberg died, and the family bickered while Rome burned. The pieces fell into the hands of Metro/Provigo, under the good offices of the Quebec Provincial government. Provigo took over most of what was once the Dominion brand in Quebc. The Quebec government vetoed earlier attempts by Loblaws to purchase the Provigo brand. Ironically, for a while, we recently had Metro all over Ontario (after the purchase of A&P/Dominion and related brands). Perhaps Metro thought that Ontarians would behave like Quebeckers (tongue in cheek reference to another post), but the rebranding was a total fiasco. Many Metros have closed (the majority in London have either closed, been sold, or have been rebranded as "Food Basics").

Metro seems to be doing reasonably well in Ottawa. Most of the Metro stores there are former stores of the local Loeb grocery chain that had a very loyal local clientele. So there might be different factors at play than in other parts of Ontario.

Loblaws seems to have scaled back its presence in Quebec though they still have some stores. The one closest to me has been changed to a Maxi, but they still have one in the Plateau district of Hull and also in Aylmer.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

There were still IGAs in rural areas of Newfoundland as well, last I checked. But usually prefaced by a family name, like Farrell's IGA in Marystown. So I don't know if that's even the same thing. There's also Foodland in a lot of rural areas. Dominion dominates outside the city, though, in my experience.

IGAs in Quebec are like this as well: IGA Famille St-Jacques, IGA Famille Charles... but they are still fundamental Sobeys grocery stores.

In my city at least IGA and Métro are neck and neck for the nicest grocery store title.

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Loblaws seems to have scaled back its presence in Quebec though they still have some stores. The one closest to me has been changed to a Maxi, but they still have one in the Plateau district of Hull and also in Aylmer.

Indeed, they have torn apart the Provigo HQ in Montreal, they shed hundred jobs, moved administrative positions to Toronto, built a distribution center in Cornwall instead of Montreal and literally butchered the brand.

As a matter of fact, Quebec lost what was once a great brand and a successful headquarter.

On a side note, I still believe, unlike Loblaws, that Sobeys gave more power to IGA Quebec to manage their stores with the outcome we know as I know for a fact that there are significant differences between an IGA Extra in, for instance, Magog and a Sobeys located in Moncton in terms of layout, products, variety etc.

http://argent.canoe.ca/nouvelles/affaires/provigo-est-lenfant-delaisse-de-loblaw-15112011

http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/economie/archives/2011/11/20111115-195511.html

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by ErickMontreal

Indeed, they have torn apart the Provigo HQ in Montreal, they shed hundred jobs, moved administrative positions to Toronto, built a distribution center in Cornwall instead of Montreal and literally butchered the brand.

As a matter of fact, Quebec lost what was once a great brand and a successful headquarter.

On a side note, I still believe, unlike Loblaws, that Sobeys gave more power to IGA Quebec to manage their stores with the outcome we know as I know for a fact that there are significant differences between an IGA Extra in, for instance, Magog and a Sobeys located in Moncton in terms of layout, products, variety etc.

http://argent.canoe.ca/nouvelles/affaires/provigo-est-lenfant-delaisse-de-loblaw-15112011

http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/economie/archives/2011/11/20111115-195511.html

Do I recall correctly that a number of national retailers have built their Montreal distribution centres in Cornwall for some tax reason?

[Airboy]

Out west we also have the Pattison Group, (Overwaitea, Save on Foods, Buy-Low Foods etc.). So there is some completion out here, sort of. In my suburb of Edmonton with about 60,000 people. We have 2 Safeway’s, 2 Save-on Foods, a Sobeys, a Wal-Mart and Target. Plus the Farmers Markets. But it will be interesting if Safeway’s is rebranded. They have a huge distribution centre in Edmonton about a mile away from Sobeys distribution centre.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Do I recall correctly that a number of national retailers have built their Montreal distribution centres in Cornwall for some tax reason?

It could be. Cornwall is also a good location because it allows you to serve both Quebec and Ontario from there. It also has a sizable bilingual population but without the obligation of having the shop operating in French.

That said, there are large distribution centres across the border in Quebec as well. For example, Canadian Tire is already in Coteau-du-Lac, not too far from Cornwall but in Quebec.

[MolsonExport]

I really dislike cornwall. Can't put my finger on why...I just dislike the place.

[SpongeG]

i hope the safeway banner/brand stays as is - it has a lot of loyalty out west and i wonder what will happen with the airmiles program, you could really rack up the miles shopping at safeway

[Boris2k7]

Personally, I'm brand-agnostic. There are certain items I'll go to each chain for (I like Safeway's lumberjack sandwiches for example), but I'll just go to whatever's closest for most stuff. Then again, I'm not tied into any Air Miles program and forgot where I put my Co-op loyalty card (which was a condition of my employment back in High School). I have two Sobeys in closer proximity to where I live than any other store, so that's where I go (plus the nearest Safeway and Coop are in an area with nasty traffic snarls that I generally stay away from).

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I really dislike cornwall. Can't put my finger on why...I just dislike the place.

I could suggest reasons..............

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i hope the safeway banner/brand stays as is - it has a lot of loyalty out west and i wonder what will happen with the airmiles program, you could really rack up the miles shopping at safeway

Sobeys has air miles too.......

[ciudad_del_norte]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Sobeys has air miles too.......

Not in the west, it doesn't. I was actually really confused by that when I was living in NS, because I have always had very strong associations with Airmiles and Safeway.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Sobeys has air miles too.......

The Sobeys disguised as IGAs in Quebec have Air Miles.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I really dislike cornwall. Can't put my finger on why...I just dislike the place.

Maybe it's because even though it's in eastern Ontario, it sort of has a southern or southwestern Ontario pseudo-rust belt feel, à la Brantford, Wallaceburg, St Catharines, etc.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Maybe it's because even though it's in eastern Ontario, it sort of has a southern or southwestern Ontario pseudo-rust belt feel, à la Brantford, Wallaceburg, St Catharines, etc.

In less diplomatic parlance, I believe that's called a "pit", Acajack!

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Sobeys has air miles too.......

Sobeys is affiliated with Aeroplan, not air miles. They have crazy promotions for Aeroplan points!

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

I don't think you understand. Sobey's is already here. For example - in my neighbourhood I have a Safeway, Co-op, and Sobey's. My order of preference for these is Safeway>Co-op>Sobey's. If they integrate their back of house operations but keep the in-store experience the same, it's likely that I keep shopping at Safeway. If I only have Sobeys and Co-op to choose from, it's likely I go to Co-op.

Safeway has a massive amount of brand loyalty in the west, they've been here since the 1930s while Sobeys has virtually none. It wouldn't make sense for them to rebrand everything under the weaker brand.



Unless Sobey's is planning on expanding to the States, there wouldn't be any problem. Things like this happen all the time, for example A&W is completely different in the US and Canada, and Safeway itself had a division in the UK that was owned and operated independently.

I see. I acknowledge the brand power of Safeway in the West, but I'd be surprised if Sobeys kept it in the long term. They're more likely to want to gradually build the Sobeys brand up.

Regarding expansion to the US, it's not likely to happen in the short term but 10-20 years down the road our big grocery chains are going to have to find growth somewhere. They're already close to saturating the domestic market, but 95% of the grocery market lies beyond Canadian borders. They'll marginalize themselves into irrelevance if they stay 'Canada only' enterprises forever.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by davidivivid

Steinberg was phased out but the Provigo brand still is very much alive, even if its reputation has been butchered by executives in Ontario who, after the purchase of Provigo by Loblaws, expected the Quebec market to behave similarly to that of Ontario's. Provigo was in a strong first position at the time and it has become a distant 3rd or 4th with half the stores it used to have.

Anyway, Loblaws still isn't a strong brand in Quebec, reason why they are investing $100M to change some of their Loblaws stores to new Provigo Le Marché concept stores.

Sounds like executives of Loblaws failed 'Business 101': know your market, never assume what works at home will work everywhere.