HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > City Compilations


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #4161  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2013, 11:59 PM
Comrade's Avatar
Comrade Comrade is offline
They all float down here
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hair City, Utah
Posts: 9,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajiuO View Post
^^^

I've spent a lot of time looking at old photos of Salt Lake.. It frankly blows my mind that this city has became so fragmented, scattered, and unpopulated. When I look at salt lake of the past it seems like a really dense populated city with lots of buildings and cool stuff to see.. It seems like we should have grown in to a much bigger city. In some ways it almost seems like less of a city now then it once was... Sure we have a few 30ish story buildings now... But there is not much density and infill.... It's like a giant parking lot with buildings scattered about... And to top that! All of the new infill being constructed is cheap looking, cowboy properties, stucco, —...What a shame :-(
It is very much less a city today than it was through to the 1960s. We demolished a lot of structures for parking lots and disposable retail that then was demolished for even more parking. It's why the western edge of downtown SLC is so desolate and sparse beyond, really, West Temple. There is just too much lost development that made up a huge amount of the city's fabric until the 70s and 80s.

IMO, SLC is kind of like a rust belt city in the growing sun belt west. It has that rust belt feel. You know, industrial, older with minimal new development (neighborhoods) and defined by two eras - the pre-automobile and then the fight to stop suburban flight.

SLC grew its population every decade between 1860 and 1960. Then the 60s rolled around, suburban sprawl became 'the thing' with the completion of the interstates and the city spent thirty years between 1960 and 1990 losing population.

Compare that to other western cities:

Denver saw its population decrease in the 70s and 80s (though saw an increase, unlike SLC, in the 60s).

Boise saw its population increase in the 60s, 70s and 80s - with some of their biggest growth coming in the 70s with an increase of 117.5%.

Phoenix saw its population increase every decade between 1960 and 1990.

Albuquerque saw its population increase every decade between 1960 and 1990.

Las Vegas saw its population increase every decade between 1960 and 1990 - with the final few decades really advancing that growth.

Portland only saw one decade where its population decreased through that stretch - the 1970s.

Seattle saw a decrease in population in the 60s and 70s, but rebounded in the 1980s.

Sacramento saw its population increase every decade between 1960 and 1990.

I won't go into the larger cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco, because that's irrelevant to SLC's development - but you see Salt Lake was extremely unique during a thirty year stretch. Not only were they losing people, they were losing it at a far larger extent (percentage wise) than any of the other cities I listed above.

So, the city shifted dramatically once the 80s rolled around and that shift led to the demolishing of some old, historic structures to keep up with the suburbs. The malls were built - buildings were also reclad and downtown took on a more suburban feel than what it had been throughout most its history.

It wasn't until the 90s, though, that people finally started moving back to the city. But up until that decade, SLC was almost certainly bucking the regional trend and acting very similar, though maybe not at near the level, as some of those midwest towns that lost a huge chunk of their population throughout the economic decline of the 70s and 80s - two decades that really ruined the American city.

Fortunately, we've been able to rebound far better than most rust belt cities and because of that, people are moving back into the city. But growth remains slow and I'm anxious to see what the predictions for this decade will yield because the 00s were not nearly as kind to SLC as the 90s (they only grew by 2.6%, down from 13.6% in the 90s).

Ultimately, that changed everything about the city. We kept most our neighborhoods (thank god for that), but we also lost a great deal of what made SLC's downtown unique.

When I look at this photo...I want to cry. Look at all the density lost with urban renewal. Imagine if western SLC looked like that today - it's have more in common with Portland than, say, Phoenix.



     
     
  #4162  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 4:57 AM
TimeSaltlake's Avatar
TimeSaltlake TimeSaltlake is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 154
yeah yeah yeah. Salt Lake lost a lot of density. Oh well. We can't dwell on the past. there are so many projects going in on that very area at the bottom of the Pic. Lots of residential which will bring a vibrant energy. Today driving from work it was nice to see people enjoying the park like feeling of the island between the Gateway apartments and those new aparments going in on 500w. Let me guess. The building is ugly, unauthentic. Oh well. Not all the buildings that were there before were that great either and well, their gone. Then you have the recently completed aparments west of 600w north temple and that one with the mural going in. These are exciting times for the west side!!!!! and the two hotels too. cmon man.
     
     
  #4163  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 5:04 AM
stayinginformed stayinginformed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 576
New Gateway apartments from today.





     
     
  #4164  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 5:24 AM
SLC Projects's Avatar
SLC Projects SLC Projects is offline
Bring out the cranes...
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 6,108
There's bricks on the first level, that's good to see.
     
     
  #4165  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 6:03 AM
ctobsl's Avatar
ctobsl ctobsl is offline
Let It Rise!
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT.
Posts: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Projects View Post
There's bricks on the first level, that's good to see.
You did not look close enough... there is brick 3 levels up...
     
     
  #4166  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 7:07 AM
ajiuO's Avatar
ajiuO ajiuO is offline
A.K.A. Vigo
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,998
That sounds about right.. 2-3 floors of brickly cladings and then stucco to the top.. If they really want to mix it up they will add some aluminum or maybe even some patches of wood siding.
     
     
  #4167  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 8:15 AM
justiny justiny is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 154
Just so I understand...

Stucco is bad.

Understood.
     
     
  #4168  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 8:29 AM
Comrade's Avatar
Comrade Comrade is offline
They all float down here
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hair City, Utah
Posts: 9,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeSaltlake View Post
yeah yeah yeah. Salt Lake lost a lot of density. Oh well. We can't dwell on the past. there are so many projects going in on that very area at the bottom of the Pic. Lots of residential which will bring a vibrant energy. Today driving from work it was nice to see people enjoying the park like feeling of the island between the Gateway apartments and those new aparments going in on 500w. Let me guess. The building is ugly, unauthentic. Oh well. Not all the buildings that were there before were that great either and well, their gone. Then you have the recently completed aparments west of 600w north temple and that one with the mural going in. These are exciting times for the west side!!!!! and the two hotels too. cmon man.
meh...the stuff we're getting now kinda —. So, I dwell. I dwell.
     
     
  #4169  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 10:02 AM
delts145's Avatar
delts145 delts145 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Downtown Los Angeles
Posts: 20,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajiuO View Post
That sounds about right.. 2-3 floors of brickly cladings and then stucco to the top.. If they really want to mix it up they will add some aluminum or maybe even some patches of wood siding.
The rendering calls for hardy board, which is actually a pretty decent looking material.
     
     
  #4170  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 3:44 PM
livedowntown's Avatar
livedowntown livedowntown is offline
Downtown with a Family
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Downtown Salt Lake City
Posts: 199
I agree with Comrade on the weakness of a lot of our designs (they are really trashy) but I also agree that infill in the end is better than losing to the suburbs. Australia was founded by criminals but has become a great place over time. Our buildings might be criminal now but over time and after more density brought by these mediocre developments. There will emerge an niche market that will demand better and better design. For now we should just be satisfied that we are filling back up with background buildings against which better developments will shine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeSaltlake View Post
yeah yeah yeah. Salt Lake lost a lot of density. Oh well. We can't dwell on the past. there are so many projects going in on that very area at the bottom of the Pic. Lots of residential which will bring a vibrant energy. Today driving from work it was nice to see people enjoying the park like feeling of the island between the Gateway apartments and those new aparments going in on 500w. Let me guess. The building is ugly, unauthentic. Oh well. Not all the buildings that were there before were that great either and well, their gone. Then you have the recently completed aparments west of 600w north temple and that one with the mural going in. These are exciting times for the west side!!!!! and the two hotels too. cmon man.
     
     
  #4171  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 4:34 PM
jimmycdii jimmycdii is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade Reynolds View Post
meh...the stuff we're getting now kinda —. So, I dwell. I dwell.
I think there are few things worth dwelling on more, for several reasons:

1) Because we're still building suburbs so this conflict isn't over or settled. To understand how to improve the situation I think we need to discuss what happened.

2) Because a lot of people, including me, weren't alive or in SLC in the 1960s or before, so it's always a surprise to see how much better parts of the city used to be. I think many times it's easy to simply accept a city's form as inevitable, or at least a linear progression forward, when that isn't the case at all. I'd say that most people don't realize that SLC and many other cities actually were more city-like many decades ago. This is a story that outside of development/planning circles is poorly understood.

Also, TimeSaltLake, you say these are exciting times for the west side. I suppose I agree because something is better than nothing. But if you had $100, then I stole it and gave you back $10 would that be exciting? I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I'm just saying that focusing too much on the positive may lead us to miss some of the lesson from the past.

I think it's ignoring the past and the magnitude of our loss that has allowed us to set our sights so low and become excited about projects like hotels — which I think will be among the least beneficial additions to the neighborhood.
     
     
  #4172  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 5:16 PM
Future Mayor's Avatar
Future Mayor Future Mayor is offline
Vote for me in 2019!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 4,803


"Many other cites"? I would beg to differ and say most other cities, besides places like Boston, NYC, Chicago, San Fran and Philadelphia, were all much more city like in the past than they are now. Yes these cities saw a downturn as well, but because of their sheer size, population, lifestyle, and continued fight to reinvent themselves into a viable place they didn't see as desolate a downturn as many other places particularly the rust belt cities, such as Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Detroit.



The biggest issue with SLC not having many old building such as the Dooly building still around is that we were a small city and still are to a degree, so unlike Detroit, Cleveland, and even Chicago, we didn't have a large quantity of buildings to lose, so the loss of one has a much greater impact on us than a loss of say even 5 or 6 would have to those other cities.

Due to the size of our city in the past, downtown for the most part really was and in large part still is on Main St, so as the city continued to fight for relevancy, Main St was always the focus, and redeveloping that core was the main priority, so things outside of that core were viewed as irrelevant. Thus the loss of much of the western part of the city, including the Dooly Building. What the city now needs to focus on is keeping the character of as much of the areas of the city as possible and building new in conjunction with old. These areas include 200 S between 500 and 600 W; 300 S between 400 and 500 W; 300 S between State and 300 E. Pierpont between 300 and 400 W, (which really has already taken place) There are obviously several other areas and/or buildings that the city along with developers needs to focus on keeping.

Honestly in my opinion, one true gem that we have in SLC that many other cities, not including the likes of Boston, Chicago, etc, is that we have a truly vibrant neighborhood, East Downtown, directly connected to the Central Business District. A Neighborhood with character, interesting architecture, and a nice blend of 3-4 story walk ups mixed with new residential buildings as well.

While much of the SW part of the city was lost, it really does give the city a place to now grow upwards, without having to encroach on areas like East downtown.
     
     
  #4173  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 5:53 PM
scottharding scottharding is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 1,681
I was at the Gateway yesterday and walked by the new Liberty apartments. While I, like most of us, don't think the design is ideal (or even too good), I love their presence. What a difference they make! And bringing that many more residents to that area will be quite a boon to the gateway and the resurgence of the area around the Transit hub. I'm happy they're there.
     
     
  #4174  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 6:24 PM
Viperlord's Avatar
Viperlord Viperlord is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 1,900
     
     
  #4175  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 6:25 PM
jimmycdii jimmycdii is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Future Mayor View Post


"Many other cites"? I would beg to differ and say most other cities, besides places like Boston, NYC, Chicago, San Fran and Philadelphia, were all much more city like in the past than they are now. Yes these cities saw a downturn as well, but because of their sheer size, population, lifestyle, and continued fight to reinvent themselves into a viable place they didn't see as desolate a downturn as many other places particularly the rust belt cities, such as Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Detroit.
I'm not sure that we actually differ much on this. You say most, I said many. Seems like a semantic issue to me, but yeah, I'd agree that it was most cities.

And ScottHarding, I agree with you. I think that when that area is all filled in it could feel a bit like Commonwealth Ave in Boston.
     
     
  #4176  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 7:19 PM
delts145's Avatar
delts145 delts145 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Downtown Los Angeles
Posts: 20,765
Actually, I was quite positive about the brick and the palette of the brick chosen for the Gateway Apartments, after seeing Stayinginformed's pics. I know this is redundant to say, but the brick is a big plus, and if completed as shown in the rendering, the hardy board will also be a very nice touch on the upper floors. I mean, I'm continually traveling through the neighborhoods in and around Central L.A., and the stucco look seems to be the only thing happening from bottom to top on the new apartment developments.

I would even venture to say that the materials and palette being used on the Liberty Gateway are a welcome departure from the beige stucco on other portions of Gateway, such as Northgate.
     
     
  #4177  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 9:40 PM
jimmycdii jimmycdii is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 131
Hey, so I'm going to England for the next two weeks. Anyone have any suggestions on interesting things to see/do related to design/development/architecture or whatever? I've been before and I've done a lot of the touristy things, so I thought I'd check for suggestions for especially educational or interesting city things.

I'll be in London, Edinburgh and anywhere else (I have a Britrail pass and almost no fixed schedule).
     
     
  #4178  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 9:54 PM
livedowntown's Avatar
livedowntown livedowntown is offline
Downtown with a Family
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Downtown Salt Lake City
Posts: 199
If you haven't already, read up on the design and intention of City Hall. I don't know how accessible the interior is but I think it is a building that represents contemporary architecture at its best. It provides an open, compelling and meaningful building that is also somewhat challenging. Love to hear your take and how it feels to be there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmycdii View Post
Hey, so I'm going to England for the next two weeks. Anyone have any suggestions on interesting things to see/do related to design/development/architecture or whatever? I've been before and I've done a lot of the touristy things, so I thought I'd check for suggestions for especially educational or interesting city things.

I'll be in London, Edinburgh and anywhere else (I have a Britrail pass and almost no fixed schedule).
     
     
  #4179  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2013, 10:43 PM
Comrade's Avatar
Comrade Comrade is offline
They all float down here
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hair City, Utah
Posts: 9,638
I just wish western downtown could have preserved the density similar to the eastern area between the U and State. It's obvious it existed once and the climb back, while it continues to happen, is going to take a considerable amount of time - especially when you consider there remains little development between West Temple and 300 West.
     
     
  #4180  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2013, 12:03 AM
jedikermit's Avatar
jedikermit jedikermit is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,259
Off topic and weird: Fox 13 came out to my place yesterday and did a hard-hitting story on my Muppet LEGO proposal. If you have about three minutes to gather mocking ammunition, check it out. Or not. Either is acceptable. http://fox13now.com/2013/06/07/utah-man-designs-the-muppets-out-of-legos/
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > City Compilations
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:20 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.