Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts? - Page 146

hollywoodnorth · #**2901** Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 6:40 AM**

if anyone noticed for 2 weeks ending last weekend TERMINAL was closed at Main due to some "emergency water works rebuild" is what I was told by some "vest wearing" guys

for the 1st week it was BOTH WAYS ON TERMINAL ..... yes there was STATION STREET to help .... but guess what MEGGS, etc. THE WHOLE AREA WAS A GONG SHOW. National was bumper to bumper for hours and hours every day. Vennables @ Clark .... GONG SHOW AS WELL.

dare I predict this is exactly what will happen when the VIADUCTS is taken down?

ALSO .... get ready for it folks ... POWELL STREET CLOSURE.

I predict .... more pedestrian strikes on hastings over the coming year .... I predict the viaducts getting WAYYY more usage ... I predict more Main/Terminal gridlock. I predict MEGGS still saying we need to tear them down. I predict the cocky british transport planner who works for the COV to say it was "all part of his traffic modeling" ......

Project closing East Van traffic artery

A major East Vancouver traffic artery will be closed to commuters later this month, and local shopkeepers are worried about the impact.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=940477&binId=1.1184694&playlistPageNum=3

trofirhen · #**2902** Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 7:15 AM**

Î think that everything you have described above - especially the Powell St. closure, is going to bring the whole issue of vehicular traffic entering Vancouver from the east, to a front-burner boil.
It may be a watershed experience, in which people who suffer from the congestion resulting from what you describe; the the clogging and danger of Hastings; to the big jump in use of the Viaducts (plus other things, like traffic shortcutting through residential streets even more, endangering lives - epecially young kids')...... to the surface, enough to say, either "no, let's stay clean and green and get rid of those pesky viaducts," or to something more like "OMG we really do need better road infrastructure in East Van!"
Either way, after Powell reopens next year, public opinion on this will never be the same. This whole thing is going to be an on-hands education for thousands and thousands of people.

Pinion · #**2903** Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 11:06 AM**

People who want to remove fast-flowing east-west routes are not using reality to form their opinions so massive gridlock won't change anything. They want everyone to sit in traffic jams until we just stop going to Vancouver proper. They're not the ones who drive in it.

aberdeen5698 · #**2904** Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 4:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Î think that everything you have described above - especially the Powell St. closure, is going to bring the whole issue of vehicular traffic entering Vancouver from the east, to a front-burner boil.

You can't be in favour of roads and be against road maintenance...

The Patullo bridge was shut down for weeks when the south approach trestle burned and, surprisingly, Armageddon did not materialize. It'll be annoying, but people will adjust their routines and life will carry on.

Alex Mackinnon · #**2905** Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 7:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

You can't be in favour of roads and be against road maintenance...

The Patullo bridge was shut down for weeks when the south approach trestle burned and, surprisingly, Armageddon did not materialize. It'll be annoying, but people will adjust their routines and life will carry on.

Powell St. isn't undergoing maintenance. An overpass of the N/S rail line is getting built on the current road alignment.

Metro-One · #**2906** Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 8:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

You can't be in favour of roads and be against road maintenance...

The Patullo bridge was shut down for weeks when the south approach trestle burned and, surprisingly, Armageddon did not materialize. It'll be annoying, but people will adjust their routines and life will carry on.

Yes, but the same can also be said if a mass transit line is shut down. it will not be the end of the world and people will adjust, but that doesn't mean we should do it.

aberdeen5698 · #**2907** Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 9:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yes, but the same can also be said if a mass transit line is shut down. it will not be the end of the world and people will adjust, but that doesn't mean we should do it.

And indeed, during the summer-long transit strike in Vancouver, life did in fact go on. That's exactly what I'm saying - the sky isn't going to fall. Let them get on with their job and just deal with it, folks...

jlousa · #**2908** Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 10:03 PM**

When did destroying publicly owned infrasturture become their job?

mezzanine · #**2909** Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 11:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlousa

When did destroying publicly owned infrasturture become their job?

But nothing has changed since the studies have been released, nothing's been 'destroyed'.

It will be council's peril if they make changes to the viaduct without public consensus.

Canadian Mind · #**2910** Posted **Jun 5, 2013, 11:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

And indeed, during the summer-long transit strike in Vancouver, life did in fact go on. That's exactly what I'm saying - the sky isn't going to fall. Let them get on with their job and just deal with it, folks...

If we only had the same attitude of the death squads in WWII...

Just because someone has an agenda doesn't mean it's their job to accomplish their goals at all costs. The job of the city government, of all governments, regardless of ideology, is to provide an administrative structure through which public works and communitive benifits can be orchestrated that individuals and/or private corporations would be unable or unwilling to do on their own.

In this case, regarding the viaducts, it is the councils responsibility to assess the function of the viaducts, what needs it serves, and if these needs can be adequately fulfilled by the remainder of the road and transit network without having a severe and detrimental impact on the remainder of either the road or transit network. The council has not done this.

While it is correct in it's assumption that the remainder of the road network, with adjustments, could handle the truck traffic, and the majority of SOV occupants could take transit, they failed to account for how truck/commercial traffic through Gastown/Chinatown would affect the livability and walkability of these neighbourhoods. Ignoring liveability, if getting cars off the road for the sake of saving the environment is the goal, it is 🞵🞵🞵-backwards. As far as emissions is concerned, every minute a diesel-powered commercial vehicle sit's in traffic is worth ten minutes of a gas powered car.

Also what needs to be considered is transit. Many of the buses going to and from downtown are near or exceeding capacity, not to mention that the downtown leg of the Expo line is quite crowded. They are attempting to force SOV to use transit, when they've already disregarded it as an option despite it being cheaper and in some cases quicker. Some will bite the bullet and start taking the bus or train, but many wont because they would rather wait an extra 15-30 minutes in traffic than be treated like sardines. The system needs to grow before the viaducts can come down. And even then I don't believe they should.

aberdeen5698 · #**2911** Posted **Jun 6, 2013, 1:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

If we only had the same attitude of the death squads in WWII...

Way to go! You've confirmed Godwin's Law yet again!

spm2013 · #**2912** Posted **Jun 6, 2013, 2:12 AM**

....

Canadian Mind · #**2913** Posted **Jun 6, 2013, 5:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Way to go! You've confirmed Godwin's Law yet again!

Yup. Did it on purpose though. I thought your statement that the council is "just doing it's job" was ridiculous, so I thought it would be a fitting retort.

Sir Conga · #**2914** Posted **Jun 6, 2013, 6:50 AM**

*face-palm*

And this thread continues on it's course of ridiculousness.

Comparing the exploration of removing the viaducts with the actions of WW2 death squads is hyperbolic insanity, and really detracts from some of the valid points against the removal of the Viaducts.

Millennium2002 · #**2915** Posted **Jun 6, 2013, 3:23 PM**

Agreed. Can we make some more rational points please?

This death squad analogy sounds as bad as the random gunshot against density excuse that was supposedly said in the city hall meeting for Onni's project in North Vancouver.

aberdeen5698 · #**2916** Posted **Jun 6, 2013, 5:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlousa

When did destroying publicly owned infrasturture become their job?

If you read back through the thread of replies you'll discover that by "their job" I was referring to road maintenance / infrastructure improvement projects like the Powell Street overpass. Like the viaducts, people were declaring that the sky would fall because of these kinds of things and I was pointing out that despite some of the major and long-lasting road and transit closures we've had in the region, the sky did in fact not fall and life went with a surprising degree of normalcy.

theKB · #**2917** Posted **Jun 6, 2013, 5:37 PM**

When is council supposed to make a decision on this?

The link posted earlier is to a washington marijuana story

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/overpass-project-forcing-closure-of-east-van-traffic-artery-1.1311479

jlousa · #**2918** Posted **Jun 6, 2013, 6:41 PM**

I've never implied that the sky will fall. If I were to die today, the world will continue, my job will still get done, but there will be some suffering by those affected. Same with the Viaducts, we'll all survive w/o them, but there will be lots of people that suffer. What benefit are we gaining from that sufferment? Is it worth that sufferment to make it easier for a developer to build?
We are after all talking about destroying existing city owned infrastructure. The question shouldn't be if we'll survive, it's if we as a city would be better served by their removal. I haven't been convinced of that yet and neither have a lot of others.

hollywoodnorth · #**2919** Posted **Jun 6, 2013, 10:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by theKB

When is council supposed to make a decision on this?

The link posted earlier is to a washington marijuana story

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/overpass-project-forcing-closure-of-east-van-traffic-artery-1.1311479

opps my bad. your right

CORRECT LINK >> http://bc.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=940477&binId=1.1184694&playlistPageNum=3

mezzanine · #**2920** Posted **Jun 6, 2013, 11:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by theKB

When is council supposed to make a decision on this?

My prediction is that if this council decides to act on trying to remove the viaducts, they will take it to civic referendum. this was done for replacing the cambie bridge in the 1980s IIRC.

Of course i was wrong about the HST being resurrected for the last election, but hey...