Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[nname]

During the construction of the new upper entrance of the west station house at the Lougheed Town Centre Station, the Primary Contractor shall be responsible for relocating the Smart Card and Faregates Work installed by the SCFW Concurrent Work Contractor, with the exception that the removal and reinstallation of the FCVMs, AFMs and faregate equipment shall be undertaken by the SCFW Concurrent Work Contractor. The Primary Contractor shall be responsible for the removal of any other equipment associated with the Smart Card and Faregate Work installed by the SCFW Concurrent Work Contractor and for the supply and installation of all conduit, cabling and other equipment (if the existing other equipment cannot be reused) to receive the relocated FCVMs, AFMs and faregate equipment in its permanent location, in accordance with the requirements set out in Article 14 [Smart Card and Faregates] of Part 2. The Primary Contractor, shall in accordance with Article 14 [Smart Card and Faregates] of Part 2, be responsible for coordinating the removal and reinstallation of the FCVMs, AFMs and faregate equipment to the new upper entrance of the west station house with TransLink and the SCFW Concurrent Work Contractor. The Primary Contractor will not be responsible for the cost of one removal and one reinstallation of the FCVMs, AFMs and faregate equipment to this new upper entrance undertaken by SCFW Concurrent Work Contractor. Any additional removal and reinstallation of the FCVMs, AFMs and faregate equipment required by the Primary Contractor to this new upper entrance will be at the cost of the Primary Contractor.

This is from the contract article 18.

[GeeCee]

Does anyone have a good overhead picture of Lougheed Station? I know about the M-Line model, but a picture would be interesting.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Does anyone have a good overhead picture of Lougheed Station? I know about the M-Line model, but a picture would be interesting.

perhaps something like Google Maps?

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

perhaps something like Google Maps?

I guess a 45 degree angle is more what I'm looking for. Google Maps doesn't give a great look at the third platform space.

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

I guess a 45 degree angle is more what I'm looking for. Google Maps doesn't give a great look at the third platform space.

http://goo.gl/maps/UEu77

[officedweller]

That is a nice overhead shot - includes a train, too!

The switches to the west of the station looks nicely alligned so that an eastbound train can get to the "Coquitlam platform" (north platform) in almost a straight line across.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by Meraki

http://goo.gl/maps/UEu77

this is the best you will get >> http://binged.it/ZA4mkd

[NewWester]

There is something that kind of bothers me about the Lougheed terminus for the Millenium Line: when I used to ride it during rush hour, a huge clump of passengers would be going to Production to get to SFU. Making all of these SFU students get off the train at Lougheed, reboard, and travel to the next station is kind of inconvenient, isn't it?

[Ehlun]

Originally Posted by NewWester

There is something that kind of bothers me about the Lougheed terminus for the Millenium Line: when I used to ride it during rush hour, a huge clump of passengers would be going to Production to get to SFU. Making all of these SFU students get off the train at Lougheed, reboard, and travel to the next station is kind of inconvenient, isn't it?

It's not ideal, but it's not THAT bad since the trains will be terminating at the outbound platform. They'd just need to essentially step out of the train and step on another train at the inbound platform.

I wonder if maybe the terminus for the 145 gets moved to Lougheed Station. The distance Lougheed Station to SFU is only an extra 900 metres compared to Production Way Station to SFU. It makes the connection easier for students coming from the Millennium Line and especially those coming from SFU Surrey via Columbia Station. It doesn't really affect students coming from VCC-Clark. Adds maybe an extra two minutes to their commute?

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by Ehlun

I wonder if maybe the terminus for the 145 gets moved to Lougheed Station. The distance Lougheed Station to SFU is only an extra 900 metres compared to Production Way Station to SFU. It makes the connection easier for students coming from the Millennium Line and especially those coming from SFU Surrey via Columbia Station. It doesn't really affect students coming from VCC-Clark. Adds maybe an extra two minutes to their commute?

Lougheed Station, before there was the Millenium Line, WAS the terminus for the 145. I used to take it back in my SFU days in the 90s. It was moved to production so people who would have taken it from Lougheed Mall, such as those going down from the 147...which is now the 97 B-Line, are forced to take the skytrain, thus artificially increasing the ridership of Glen Clark's nowhere to nowhere line.

When the Evergreen Line is finally built, the whole issue with the 145 will be put to rest, as it won't matter which station the SFU bus would originate from. It will also be relieved as I believe there will be another SFU bus from Burquitlam Station later on...

[xd_1771]

^ You know what, that's pretty baseless right there. You also forget to consider the valid benefits of the shorter trip for those coming from the west who ride one station less (i.e. Vancouver), significant return trip travel time savings, the benefits from an operational perspective (operating cost efficiency), and the presence of the 143 (which, both before and after the Millennium Line/97, would have made for a faster trip to SFU anyway). In addition, it would have made Lougheed (one of the busiest Millennium Line stations) less manageable as a station (one of the reasons for the introduction of a 129 service to BCIT from Patterson).

@Ehlun it's a 2 minute trip from Production Way to Lougheed Station on the SkyTrain, and then there's also the extra travel time on Lougheed Highway. For the return trip, this could be pretty grueling and a significant extension practically and financially, as the 145 would have to face two major left turns as opposed to being pretty much right there. 145 service to Lougheed Station is a precursor to the Millennium Line as it formerly continued to New West Station.

Unfortunately, I think it is highly unlikely that the 145 will ever redirect to Lougheed Station. There's not a lot of benefit to be had, really. One less transfer would be nice for south-of-fraser travellers, but the on-road addition to travel time would offset it, make Production Way less viable as a business location, and disadvantage travellers to/from the west.

Besides, transfers in the future in order to get to an SFU-bound bus are going to be quite seamless. A Millennium Line rider heading to/from Surrey never has to climb or drop an extra flight of stairs. On the morning trip, one can transfer to the eastbound Evergreen Line through a simple walk-across-the-platform, and then board the 143 near Burquitlam Station. Missing a train is always a 3 minute delay or less. On the trip back, choosing the 145 would also result in a simple walk-across-the-platform transfer. Trains can be scheduled so that an eastbound train arrival always precedes a Millennium Line train departure, with 96% on-time reliability.

[queetz@home]

I just love it when this 18 year old kid thinks he is one hell of a know it all, the sole decider what is "baseless or not". I won't bother dignifying his infinite knowledge with a response except to say I stand by what I said. There was no reason why the 145 was moved from Lougheed other than to force SFU students to get off Production to increase ridership of an underperforming line, rather than it making sense.

Oh, and the 145 never continued to New West when I was in SFU, and the 143 was peak times only...Lougheed isn't that busy anyway, back in the 90s, or even today.

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

I just love it when this 18 year old kid thinks he is one hell of a know it all, the sole decider what is "baseless or not". I won't bother dignifying his infinite knowledge with a response except to say I stand by what I said. There was no reason why the 145 was moved from Lougheed other than to force SFU students to get off Production to increase ridership of an underperforming line, rather than it making sense.

It makes sense to me. Why bother running the bus all the way to Lougheed when there's the skytrain station right there? It's the closest hub along the former route, and Lougheed Station is busy enough as it is. I get that it can be a pain to transfer to skytrain for such a short trip, but during rush hour along that stretch of Lougheed Hwy can get very congested. You must not have used it in a long time. I'd be willing to bet that during peak hours, it's faster to transfer at Production and hop on a train than it is to try to fight through traffic.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

perhaps something like Google Maps?

or: www.globalairphotos.com

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

It makes sense to me. Why bother running the bus all the way to Lougheed when there's the skytrain station right there? It's the closest hub along the former route, and Lougheed Station is busy enough as it is. I get that it can be a pain to transfer to skytrain for such a short trip, but during rush hour along that stretch of Lougheed Hwy can get very congested. You must not have used it in a long time. I'd be willing to bet that during peak hours, it's faster to transfer at Production and hop on a train than it is to try to fight through traffic.

Why don't you test it for us then? The 145 was perfect the way it was, the Lougheed highway traffic ain't that bad. Its a HUGE pain to transfer for that short Skytrain trip. Another thing to consider is the Millenium Line trains aren't as frequent as those in Expo, so that time of walking and waiting do add up. So removing the 145 at the same stop of 97-B line and other Tri Cities buses that are hubbed in that mall was such a nuiance.

[Infrequent Poster]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

I just love it when this 18 year old kid thinks he is one hell of a know it all, the sole decider what is "baseless or not". I won't bother dignifying his infinite knowledge with a response except to say I stand by what I said. There was no reason why the 145 was moved from Lougheed other than to force SFU students to get off Production to increase ridership of an underperforming line, rather than it making sense.

Oh, and the 145 never continued to New West when I was in SFU, and the 143 was peak times only...Lougheed isn't that busy anyway, back in the 90s, or even today.

What does his age have to do with his opinion?

[deasine]

@queez Your personal attack was absolutely unnecessary. I'm sorry to hear that you were inconvenienced by the move of the terminus and you are entitled to your opinion, but this gives you no right to lash your frustration at others on this forum.

Previously, the reduction of the 145 Shuttle from Lougheed to Production Way reduced scheduled services by 2-minutes per direction. That may seem little in savings in individual trips, but when you factor in all the trips in the day, this gives considerable savings for TransLink. With the Evergreen Line in service, the 145 will be moved to Burquitlam Station which would further reduce the total distance and service time, which gives potentially allows TransLink to increase frequency without necessarily increasing service.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by deasine

@queez Your personal attack was absolutely unnecessary. I'm sorry to hear that you were inconvenienced by the move of the terminus and you are entitled to your opinion, but this gives you no right to lash your frustration at others on this forum.

Previously, the reduction of the 145 Shuttle from Lougheed to Production Way reduced scheduled services by 2-minutes per direction. That may seem little in savings in individual trips, but when you factor in all the trips in the day, this gives considerable savings for TransLink. With the Evergreen Line in service, the 145 will be moved to Burquitlam Station which would further reduce the total distance and service time, which gives potentially allows TransLink to increase frequency without necessarily increasing service.

Sorry Deasine but I find [xd_1771's] comment that my post being "baseless" extremely offensive and insulting. Especially since I experience first hand the stupidity of the 145 rerouting, and the frustration of this project taking so long to happen. He needs to show some respect and be careful with the way he comments. And if what he says is true that he came from the Phils, respect for "elders" should be part of his culture...

[nname]

Originally Posted by deasine

Previously, the reduction of the 145 Shuttle from Lougheed to Production Way reduced scheduled services by 2-minutes per direction. That may seem little in savings in individual trips, but when you factor in all the trips in the day, this gives considerable savings for TransLink. With the Evergreen Line in service, the 145 will be moved to Burquitlam Station which would further reduce the total distance and service time, which gives potentially allows TransLink to increase frequency without necessarily increasing service.

A 2 minutes saving on the 145 means 15%, since the route is so short. However, I think its more than 2 minutes though, as Lougheed going toward Austin Ave seems to be jammed up everyday during PM peak...

Another thing is that, having the 145 going to Lougheed means they need to build a much larger bus loop. For a high frequency service like the 145, they need a bus bay suitable for articulated bus, plus 2-3 layover spots. Ever noticed the 145s parked on Lougheed Highway, or the 99s parked on Grandview Hwy behind the SkyTrain station, or even the dedicated layover spots for the 97s at Coquitlam stations? That's alot of extra spaces needed for an already busy bus loop in term of bus movements. Plus any available space would most likely be reserved for 97, as it is another potentially demanding route.

Also, the 145 do not get moved to Burquitlam. According to the previous LRT plan, the 143 will become a FTN route, but the segment between Burquitlam and SFU will receive extra short-turn service essentially giving a 4min peak headway. The 145 will remain as-is (with possibly a slight reduction of service since 143 will be taking over some of the load).

[xd_1771]

Oh, and the 145 never continued to New West when I was in SFU, and the 143 was peak times only...Lougheed isn't that busy anyway, back in the 90s, or even today.

For clarification, I got that info from a look up of the Canadian Public Transit Database. In the past some trips extended to Scott Road SkyTrain Station. At an unspecified date, this was modified to New West Station, until service cuts in 2001 ended these extensions.

Well, I'm sorry if in your experience the reroute did not create benefits, but I think you really need to realize that your excessive comments pinning your problems on the SkyTrain system, while valid as potential reasons for them, are not the sole reasons for them if reasons at all, as you seem to suggest.

It isn't as simple as you think. nname makes an excellent point about the need for layover space and more passenger waiting areas, and deasine makes a great point on the efficiency and operational cost of this. This is where SkyTrain becomes quite an advantage, actually. Through its reliable, predictable service (even if it were not as frequent as the Expo Line, it's still extremely reliable and predictable and can be trusted by passengers) the splitting of hubs is feasible, probably never causing more than a 5 minute delay and creating efficiency in costs and in management.

If I'm not mistaken, the shortening of service to Production Way Station when the M-Line opened coincided with a general increase in route frequency. Perhaps that was made possible by the financial savings of the route shortening. In 2002, TransLink was just out of a major cut to transit service and a strike.