Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[afreak]

I've been banging my head against the wall for the past few days on this: but does anyone have a link to the documents Translink put out earlier this year on transit use by route, station, etc?

[nname]

Originally Posted by afreak

I've been banging my head against the wall for the past few days on this: but does anyone have a link to the documents Translink put out earlier this year on transit use by route, station, etc?

Here

[afreak]

Originally Posted by nname

Here

Thank-you very much.

[xd_1771]

Hey guys, here's something I dug up while doing some searching about Kuala Lumpur's Kelana Jaya Line.
http://www.jfem.com.my/files/industries/mc_putra.html


This is the TBM used in the KJL's long tunnel sections. According to the site it had a 5.37m diameter - substantially narrower than the diameter of the TBM used for the Canada Line (6.1m). You can thank LIMs for such a small diameter and the associated savings!

Future Broadway line experience?
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[Alon]

Can you help me understand something about the KJL? This article claims a cost of 7 billion ringgits for the extension:

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/construction-starts-in-kuala-lumpur.html

Does it mean that the KJL extension alone is 7 billion, or that both the KJL extension and the Ampang extension are 7 billion between them?

I'm asking because in PPP dollars this works out to $3.6 billion, and if it's just for the KJL, it would make the elevated KJL extension more expensive per kilometer than the half-underground Canada Line. Former British colonies have horrific construction costs and Vancouver is one of the cheapest cities to tunnel in in the Anglosphere for reasons I don't really understand.

[nname]

The RM 7bil is for both lines totaling 35km.

[officedweller]

Of interest from the G&M re: transit funding.
There's a reference comparing the capital costs of the Eglinton Line with the Canada Line...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentar...reater-torontos-transit/article12219357/

[nname]

Looks like Aldergrove Trolley service is launching this saturday

For the south route to Pioneer Park - $3/round trip, $58/month
From Aldergrove (Extra Foods) - 9:30a, 10:30a, 11:30a, 12:30p, 1:30p
From Pioneer Park - 9:50a, 10:50a, 11:50a, 12:50p, 1:50p

For the north route to Gloucester - $2.50/ride, $90/month
Schedule unknown yet...

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Of interest from the G&M re: transit funding.
There's a reference comparing the capital costs of the Eglinton Line with the Canada Line...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentar...reater-torontos-transit/article12219357/

Reassuring !! hurray for our side.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by nname

Looks like Aldergrove Trolley service is launching this saturday

For the south route to Pioneer Park - $3/round trip, $58/month
From Aldergrove (Extra Foods) - 9:30a, 10:30a, 11:30a, 12:30p, 1:30p
From Pioneer Park - 9:50a, 10:50a, 11:50a, 12:50p, 1:50p

For the north route to Gloucester - $2.50/ride, $90/month
Schedule unknown yet...

What a useless web site - there's no route map or schedule. How are they going to attract people if they don't know when or where the bus runs?

Not to mention that one of my pet peeves is decking out a bus in old fashioned trimming and calling it a "trolley"...

[nname]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

What a useless web site - there's no route map or schedule. How are they going to attract people if they don't know when or where the bus runs?

I think they'll tell you if you go to their event this weekend

[Spork]

That trolley service is going to get shut down so fast it will make your head spin.

http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/freeside/00_98030_01#section5

I recall reading about a lawsuit against a private bus company in the past, but can't find the article again. The basic premise is that private transportation services will simply operate along the most profitable routes and kill the system's ability to act as a public service along less profitable routes.

[nname]

Both routes were already approved by TransLink last year.

[Spork]

Originally Posted by nname

Both routes were already approved by TransLink last year.

I stand corrected! I should have got my Google search on in that direction instead. Either way, articles up until today indicate that the service has had quite a rocky start.

[huenthar]

looks like the routes can be found here:

http://pioneerparkonline.org/Trolley.html

[xd_1771]

If you click the routes, it tells you how many runs there are per day.
This is interesting, I have a lot of memories of Aldergrove residents complaining, talking about Gloucester and its lack of transit service at TransLink meetings.

[officedweller]

Short article in the 24 Hours says that the MKI refits will remove 4 seats from each car to create space for bikes, strollers, etc.

[Ehlun]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Short article in the 24 Hours says that the MKI refits will remove 4 seats from each car to create space for bikes, strollers, etc.

A necessary move. Hopefully they take out one seat from the middle bench as well. Way too cramped.

Get rid of the red interiors as well.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Of interest from the G&M re: transit funding.
There's a reference comparing the capital costs of the Eglinton Line with the Canada Line...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentar...reater-torontos-transit/article12219357/

While it is true that the Canada Line's lower cost can largely be explained by the cut-and-cover construction as opposed to full bored tunnel, another problem with the Eglinton Crosstown is the idiocy of using at-grade LRT technology in a mostly tunneled rapid transit scenario. I don't know what head engineer decided that, but it happened, and it's complete idiocy. Overhead caternaries make tunnels taller and more expensive.

As I posted earlier on tunnel size:

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Hey guys, here's something I dug up while doing some searching about Kuala Lumpur's Kelana Jaya Line.
http://www.jfem.com.my/files/industries/mc_putra.html

This is the TBM used in the KJL's long tunnel sections. According to the site it had a 5.37m diameter - substantially narrower than the diameter of the TBM used for the Canada Line (6.1m). You can thank LIMs for such a small diameter and the associated savings!

Whereas the Eglinton LRT tunnel diameter is 6.5m, the tunnel diameter for the Canada Line (third rail) was 6.1m, and for a SkyTrain-type installation with linear motors as small as 5.37m - i.e. 80% the size and material of the Eglinton tunnels.

Here's something from a Bombardier report [CLICK HERE] on how smaller tunnel size can have savings:

Depending on the tunnel design (single track, dual track, cut and cover, with or without emergency walkway, etc.) and weather it is in solid rock or some other material, the savings due to reduced tunnel diameter can be very significant. Based on the minimum size of (single track) tunnel for both conventional and ART technology, the reduction in amount of material removed would be approximately 10,000m3 per km of dual tunnel. The amount of tunnel liner material would also be reduced, by approximately 1900m3 per km of dual tunnel. These estimates are based on a 5.0m finished tunnel diameter for ART, and 5.5m finished tunnel diameter for conventional trains, with 0.6m thick tunnel lining.

The cost savings of smaller tunnels would have more than absorbed the $360m cost to convert the Scarborough RT to be able to use ART 200 or 300 vehicles, for continuous operation on the Scarborough RT and the new Eglinton Crosstown lines at high capacities. The technology choice might even absorb any extra cost to make the proposed future westward extensions grade-separated and fully compatible (which would pretty much only need to be overpasses at widely-spaced intersections, if you look at the Eglinton right-of-way there).

The issue, I guess, is that no one ever bothered to look at this stuff. It was dismissed waaayyy too fast. Examining 'SkyTrain technology' could have saved Toronto from a lot of the debating, and a lot of the financial hurdles.

[Mac Write]

Any pictures or renders for the upgraded mark 1s?