Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

Adding a freeway to Vancouver is impracticable and expensive and unnecessary. People commuting to downtown should switch to transit. With parking at $20 a day you would be stupid to commute downtown in my opinion.

If we could get rid of the single vehicle occupants commuting to downtown Vancouver then we wouldn't have any congestion in the tunnel.

I'll say the same thing about the tunnel as I said about the Port Mann bridge - rather than increasing capacity we can solve the congestion problem by simply implementing tolls. Increasing capacity will increase vehicle traffic and reduce transit usage. Adding tolls will do the opposite.

Of course it's political suicide, but IMHO it's the most sensible thing to do if you look at the big picture.

[makr3trkr]

http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130523-910420.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

BCAA worst roads in BC survey

Massey Tunnel at #4 currently:

1. BC Parkway (east of Joyce Street), Vancouver
2. Westside Road, Kelowna
3. Vernon Slocan Highway
4. George Massey Tunnel, Richmond
5. Sea-to-Sky Highway, Pemberton
6. Pacific Rim Highway, Port Alberni
7. Island Highway, Malahat
8. Todd Road, Kamloops
9. Indian River Drive, North Vancouver

[Stingray2004]

Sorry, totally off-topic... but since aging infrastructure such as the GMT and Hwy 99's connection to I-5 are a bit relevant... thought that I would insert this tidbit. The Skagit River Bridge on I-5 near Mount Vernon, WA has just collapsed. Wonder how they will reroute I-5 traffic?







http://www.vancouversun.com/Skagit+River...ars+people+seen+water/8427846/story.html

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio...on-skagit-river-bridge-collapse/2356801/

[yesheh]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Sorry, totally off-topic... but since aging infrastructure such as the GMT and Hwy 99's connection to I-5 are a bit relevant... thought that I would insert this tidbit. The Skagit River Bridge on I-5 near Mount Vernon, WA has just collapsed. Wonder how they will reroute I-5 traffic?

http://www.vancouversun.com/Skagit+River...ars+people+seen+water/8427846/story.html

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio...on-skagit-river-bridge-collapse/2356801/

Probably just redirect traffic off the highway at George Hopper Rd. (north of the river) and back on at East College Way (south of the river). The county bridge about a half mile up river was replaced about 10-15 years ago.

That said, that spot is going to be a mess for at least the next year. There's a number of alternate routes - SR 9 for example - that go around the spot but none of the other bridges have the capacity to take the I-5's traffic.

[SpongeG]

thats crazy eh, its really gonna make getting to seattle worse for a while

[connect2source]

The Washington state DOT are speculating that it was an oversized vehicle striking a portal and pulling on the truss hence causing the collapse.

The bridge was given a score of 57/100 during the last inspection, anything sub 50 means replacement, anything above, repair. That said, I've no doubt this induce great support for the GMT replacement and perhaps fast track it as well as stir lots of discussion re: the Pattullo!

[go_leafs_go02]

Apparently an oversized truck who shouldn't have driven over it clipped the top girder and caused it to weaken and fall within a few seconds.

If that's the case, then, not much about Engineering can be done to prevent that.

They'll probably temporarily patch up the bridge to open it up (ala Pattullo when it burned a few years back) and expedite a new modern crossing to open in the next 2-3 years.

Pattullo would have been replaced a while ago had New Westminster not taken the perspective it has chosen to take.

[WarrenC12]

The US Interstate system is certainly showing it's age in recent years. The lack of maintenance combined with the massive federal deficits don't paint a pretty picture of the future.

[libtard]

That bridge was just poorly designed and would be "functionally obsolete" by todays standards

[Metro-One]

Yet if the same thing happened in BC you would be all over that wouldn't you?? I knew you would come out to spin this as not so bad, fact is the interstate system in many areas is falling apart.

[deasine]

I realised there are many oversized vehicle issues elsewhere in the world than there are in Canada. In Sydney, the problem is so bad with trucks ignoring STOP digital advisory signs that they installed STOP water curtains!

• Video Link

[go_leafs_go02]

So what we know now:

The truck that clipped the bridge was Canadian.

It was an oversized load, that had permits from Washington to cross the bridge on the way to Vancouver, WA.

Apparently, some part of the load was slightly damaged and that damaged section clipped the top girders on the bridge and caused the structure to fail and the section of bridge to collapse.

[libtard]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yet if the same thing happened in BC you would be all over that wouldn't you?? I knew you would come out to spin this as not so bad, fact is the interstate system in many areas is falling apart.

Whats to spin?

A truck clipped the girders

That bridge was very poorly designed though

As for interstate system falling part in many areas They still put BC's glorified goat trails we call highways to shame

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by deasine

In Sydney, the problem is so bad with trucks ignoring STOP digital advisory signs that they installed STOP water curtains!

That is very cool! There ought to be a really hefty fine for any truck that fails to stop by the second STOP warning sign.

[Political_R]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

So what we know now:

The truck that clipped the bridge was Canadian.

It was an oversized load, that had permits from Washington to cross the bridge on the way to Vancouver, WA.

Apparently, some part of the load was slightly damaged and that damaged section clipped the top girders on the bridge and caused the structure to fail and the section of bridge to collapse.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/63005E05-AE13-4534-9554-F7B84FAEB8BD/92357/permit.pdf He might have had the permit, however, it was considered self-issued. Secondly, it clearly states that WSDOT does not assume responsibility for height clearance. That is also clearly spelt out in our state laws.

It is the responsibility of the permit applicant to check or rerun the route to insure it is free of overhead obstructions. WAC 468-38-100 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=468-38-100
Pilot cars are required for any load that exceeds 14’6” in height. WAC 468-38-100
Pilot cars are to be equipped with a height measuring device to detect overhead clearances. The device must be extended between 3 and 6 inches above the maximum height of the load.
The pilot car must be far enough in front of the over height vehicle allow the over height vehicle to stop in a safe and timely manner if needed.

They are permitted to self-issue permits, but then I think that means the company takes on the responsibility. The DOT will not be liable given the permit and states law clearly states no responsibility for heights.

Will this lead to a change in providing height information on bridges? I hope so. Anything in this range is not required to have signage. However, I believe for anything under 15' 6" should have proper signage for height.

Sorry for continuing OT.

In terms relating to the Massey Tunnel, the height should be designed for probably 16'. If a bridge is selected, it will most likely not be an issue. The Sydney solution is quite interesting to say the least with the water curtain to get the driver's attention.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

If we could get rid of the single vehicle occupants commuting to downtown Vancouver then we wouldn't have any congestion in the tunnel.

I'll say the same thing about the tunnel as I said about the Port Mann bridge - rather than increasing capacity we can solve the congestion problem by simply implementing tolls. Increasing capacity will increase vehicle traffic and reduce transit usage. Adding tolls will do the opposite.

Of course it's political suicide, but IMHO it's the most sensible thing to do if you look at the big picture.

Many people using the tunnel don't have access to rapid transit so tolls won't help. We are in a chicken and egg situation in the region. Most people don't want to spend any money on transit expansion south of Fraser because there are "more important priorities." Then those same people don't want any money spent to expand road infrastructure.

So basically I hear a lot of no infrastructure expansion south of Fraser. Problem? Tells that to the population growth out here. That isn't stopping so sorry to burst some people's bubbles but we will need to expand 1 or both. None isn't an option.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by jhausner

So basically I hear a lot of no infrastructure expansion south of Fraser. Problem? Tells that to the population growth out here. That isn't stopping so sorry to burst some people's bubbles but we will need to expand 1 or both. None isn't an option.

The answer is always "both." Some people want to punish those who don't have the same ideals as them but we need both public transit and improved roads, because both suck.

I'll never be able to take public transit to my work even if it didn't drive me crazy with its unnecessary inefficiency (restricted area). I also have to take a lot of equipment to and from work every day. Anti-car people seem to forget that not everyone has a job like theirs.

[libtard]

There are different levels of priority infrastructure south of the fraser though

Road infrastructure needs to be upgraded immediately

Once that is done, transit can be addressed

[Metro-One]

Or...They can both be done at the same time! Especially how seeing the replacement of this tunnel (which is needed) should include rapid bus lanes / system.

[officedweller]

I think this article on the original tunnel was posted a long time ago - but I came across the bookmark, so I thought I'd post.

Go to Page 122.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=vtsDAAAA...20mechanics%20atomic%20submarine&f=false