340 Parkdale Ave | 7/21/103m | 2/6/32f | Proposed

[Harley613]

ok after looking at McC's post and the location for the new build on google maps I sincerely apologize. I'm not a heightmonger, I'm all for sensible densification and I agree the original proposal was a little bit of a 'Tour Montparnasse'.

[kevinbottawa]

Around King Street West in Toronto they have 15-18 storey buildings on some of the side streets around King Street which has some 1 storey/low-rise to mid-rise developments. These buildings don't seem imposing at all and haven't ruined the neighbourhood. They're hidden well. After a few more buildings are built around the Attika it won't seem so out of place.

[ThaLoveDocta]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

Around King Street West in Toronto they have 15-18 storey buildings on some of the side streets around King Street which has some 1 storey/low-rise to mid-rise developments. These buildings don't seem imposing at all and haven't ruined the neighbourhood. They're hidden well. After a few more buildings are built around the Attika it won't seem so out of place.

There's a reason that works though..

Here's an example (on King street) where the existing bank building was maintained, and the tower built in the alley and on top of the existing - in effect not changing the street presence at all.

This one is a little further downtown than what i think you're referring to, however there is at least one other of this type further west on king as well.

Incidentally that is one of my favorite buildings and hotels in Toronto, and I've always thought the concept would lend itself well to the heritage buildings near bank & sparks or elgin & wellington



Granted though, none of this applies here.

[McC]

This whole discussion is kinda moot, the Plan for this lot is crystal clear (unlike, say 1050 Somerset, where the Plan only "seemed" clear, but left a loophole big enough for a 23-storey Claridge tower); and Peter Hume has said that the Plan should stand.

[McC]

Reevely's blogged briefly about the updated plans:
http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2013/01/17/tweaks-to-tegas-attika-proposal-in-west-wellington/

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by gjhall

I like a point tower as much as the next guy, but this was a lousy location for the original proposal. And McC is right, the podium/lot coverage area hasn't changed a lick. This is certainly a step in the right direction, but I don't think there will be a rejoicing community either.

"The community" is never happy.

This statement is true for every "community" in Ottawa, with regards to every proposal to build anything.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Davis137

18 Floors is still really tall for that lot, when there are only houses across the street from it on Parkdale...not a complete loss or waste!

So what if there are "only houses across the street"? That sounds like large swathes of the Golden Triangle - one of the most-desired, expensive, and liveable residential areas in the core.

Hell, for that matter, it's even like parts of the Glebe near the Canal.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by ThaLoveDocta

There's a reason that works though..

Here's an example (on King street) where the existing bank building was maintained, and the tower built in the alley and on top of the existing - in effect not changing the street presence at all.

This one is a little further downtown than what i think you're referring to, however there is at least one other of this type further west on king as well.

Incidentally that is one of my favorite buildings and hotels in Toronto, and I've always thought the concept would lend itself well to the heritage buildings near bank & sparks or elgin & wellington



Granted though, none of this applies here.

I was thinking further down King. Here are some of the buildings I was thinking about. 15-20 storeys

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

"The community" is never happy.

This statement is true for every "community" in Ottawa, with regards to every proposal to build anything.

And the development industry has never found a community design plan it was happy with, either.

So until the development industry can restrain itself to building within the intent of the community design plans, the argument that "'the community' is never happy" is moot. If developers aren't happy with the CDPs, then they should be participating in their creation (which sort of now seems to be happening along the O-Train corridor) - but of course by participating in them they then might be expected to abide by them by even the OMB.


Besides, there are a few cases where smaller developers *have* restrained themselves to community design plans and where the community *hasn't* gone nutso on it. It's just exceedingly rare to find developers who are capable of the following:

1. Examining the relevant zoning and CDPs *before* purchasing;
2. Figuring out what the value of the property is given (1);
3. Not paying more than the value determined in (2);
4. Proposing something that conforms to (1) without bucket loads of exceptions and too-cute-by-half interpretations.

[J.OT13]

Thank you moderator for updating!

[kevinbottawa]

Tweet from Councillor Hobbs:

Update on Zoning By-law Amendment Application for 233 Armstrong - Tega "Attika" - http://eepurl.com/z9j6j

[kevinbottawa]

New Attika design.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

New Attika design.

I thought it was raining.

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

New Attika design.

Putting the whole design and height aspect aside - has anyone else here wondered where Tega is getting the money/funding to build these types of projects? Only a few years ago they were building low-rise, (significantly cheaper) wood frame buildings. And now they have the 32ish storey Rhombus and Attika - both significantly larger and thus much more expensive than their previous endeavors. Most builders projects slowly increase in size and price, but the rate Tega seems to be growing certainly brings up a few questions in my mind.... Maybe that's just me.

[McC]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

Putting the whole design and height aspect aside - has anyone else here wondered where Tega is getting the money/funding to build these types of projects? .

they haven't "built" anything yet. As I asked in the 111 Parkdale thread, is there a real estate development equivalent of "vapourware"? (the proverbial "Florida swampland for sale" is the closest example I can think of, and doesn't really apply here)

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by McC

they haven't "built" anything yet. As I asked in the 111 Parkdale thread, is there a real estate development equivalent of "vapourware"? (the classic "Florida swampland" riff is the closest example I can think of, and doesn't really apply here)

They have built a few projects in the city - Centropolis on Kent, Vertical Limits in Kanata, and they have a project in Barrhaven in the works and they finished one on Churchill last year (the name escapes me).

I just don't know how you go from those relatively small and cheaper projects to releasing large high-rises in a matter of a few years. (Even if these larger projects don't get built, the costs incurred for the approval stages, sales office, staff, architects, etc... would be substantially higher than the low-rise product they've built)

[McC]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

They have built a few projects in the city - Centropolis on Kent, Vertical Limits in Kanata, and they have a project in Barrhaven in the works and they finished one on Churchill last year (the name escapes me).

I just don't know how you go from those relatively small and cheaper projects to releasing large high-rises in a matter of a few years. (Even if these larger projects don't get built, the costs incurred for the approval stages, sales office, staff, architects, etc... would be substantially higher than the low-rise product they've built)

You asked where they were getting the money to build, and in saying that they haven't built anything yet, I meant to say that I don't think they've gotten the money to build these highrises, I think that they're banking* on pre-sales, and lots of them, before they approach potential-financiers. Or, they may have access to "alternative financing sources."



*pun alert!

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by McC

You asked where they were getting the money to build, and in saying that they haven't built anything yet, I meant to say that I don't think they've gotten the money to build these highrises, I think that they're banking* on pre-sales, and lots of them, before they approach potential-financiers. Or, they may have access to "alternative financing sources."



*pun alert!

I should re-word my original question. Where HAVE they gotten the money/funding to even get the Rhombus and Attika to the point where they are now? Going through all these density and height changes, buying the land, building the sales centre, etc... is costly. Very costly.

If this is funding is from investors, I'd like to know who these investors are, because they clearly don't do a lot of research into their investments.

[McC]

there are some unsavoury rumours.

[Harley613]

I have higher hopes for this and Rhombus to come to fruition than I did for the Saade International Centre at least....