Macy's closing 4 Downtown stores across US

[Crawford]

There are only like five cities in the U.S. with a healthy downtown environment for multiple department stores.

I guess only NYC, SF, Chicago, Boston, Seattle. There are many other cities with downtown department stores, but they're usually attached to malls, or quite small/downsized, or subsidized. And these are really the only cities with a broad mix of downtown stores (you might throw in Philly too; I'd say it's borderline because it has Walnut Street shopping, and a nice old Macys, but it's still not the main shopping game in the area).

For whatever reason, and with a few exceptions. the U.S. market isn't really into traditional downtown department store shopping.

[antinimby]

It used to be but not so much anymore.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

For whatever reason, and with a few exceptions. the U.S. market isn't really into traditional downtown department store shopping.

that's probably true, but why are so many people so excited to go shopping on the magnificent mile when they visit chicago and yet they won't support downtown retail in their home city?

it seems many people want the experience of shopping on a big busy downtown retail street, but only as something you do every once in a great while when you're visiting a big city. for everyday shopping the masses must simply feel that it's much more convenient to just drive to their local mall with its 5 square miles of free parking than "deal" with downtown.

[fflint]

Daytrippers from the suburbs and nearby metros, overnighters from the rest of the country and foreign lands, office workers at lunchtime and evening rush, and local residents all drive successful downtown shopping districts like San Francisco's and Chicago's.

It also helps if there is no shopping district or mall complex for a thousand miles that can even begin to rival the downtown shopping district, especially in terms of prestige or quantity and diversity of offerings. That is the case for San Francisco, which has a truly functional shopping 'center;' and as the city and region continue to grow, the district continues to intensify and expand.

Cities that don't have a critical mass of at least three of those four--daytrippers, overnight tourists/conventioneers, office workers and residents--may have a really hard time keeping big department stores open.

As for St. Louis, hopefully another store will open in that place, like a CityTarget. I actually visit CityTarget more than I visit Macy's, but then I'm not a recreational shopper--Target is more about essentials, and that kind of focus may actually better serve the downtown StL market.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

that's probably true, but why are so many people so excited to go shopping on the magnificent mile when they visit chicago and yet they won't support downtown retail in their home city?

it seems many people want the experience of shopping on a big busy downtown retail street, but only as something you do every once in a great while when you're visiting a big city. for everyday shopping the masses must simply feel that it's much more convenient to just drive to their local mall with its 5 square miles of free parking than "deal" with downtown.

I think you answered your own question, but I'll also add that busy department stores cannot stay in business in downtown areas unless there is a large number of visitors. And nowadays, only really large cities with lots of visitors/tourists can sustain them.

In other words, it's not just about the choices of people not to shop in their own downtown, it's about the stores themselves being unable to keep their doors open, as evidenced by the St Louis example.

[pdxtex]

how relevant are mid-tier department stores in downtowns anyway? i mean, im not going to drive all the way downtown to get a pair of tommy hilfiger socks. macy's clearly serves a market niche but its not tourists or newly urban and hip downtown dwellars.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

macy's clearly serves a market niche but its not tourists

you must be unaware of how tourists are drawn to macy's state street like moths to a flame. it's not just a store; it's a veritable cathedral of retail. i think tourists keep the place afloat. i would assume the situtation is similar at herald and union squares.

[pdxtex]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

you must be unaware of how tourists are drawn to macy's state street like moths to a flame. it's not just a store; it's a veritable cathedral of retail. i think tourists keep the place afloat. i would assume the situtation is similar at herald and union squares.

clearly there are some exceptions to the rule but those are usually some extraordinary landmark properties. i dont think downtown honolulu or houston fit into this equation though. the chicago macy's is really marshall field's in everybody's heart too. people might give a rip about macy's too if they hadn't consumed every single regionally significant department store and then just sold the same exact stuff. its kind of the best buy of clothes anyway. not really luxury goods but a bit nicer then sears.

[fflint]

Not all Macy's are the same--the flagship stores are bigger, higher-end, offer more selection and product lines than the chains' other locations. For example, SF's downtown Macy's flagship complex is massive and very upscale and offers high-end electronics, which upon introduction was unique for the entire chain (and may still be). The men's store is a separate building altogether, with six levels of shopping. Contrast that with the other Macy's location out on the residential west side: it consists of two smallish levels that are not particularly well kept or furnished, and doesn't offer the same range of items or, for the things they do carry, the same high-end options.

Recreational shoppers who like to travel and make a day of shopping enjoy the big downtown stores like those in Chicago and San Francisco because they're unlike the ones out in the malls in a whole bunch of ways.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

that's probably true, but why are so many people so excited to go shopping on the magnificent mile when they visit chicago and yet they won't support downtown retail in their home city?

it seems many people want the experience of shopping on a big busy downtown retail street, but only as something you do every once in a great while when you're visiting a big city. for everyday shopping the masses must simply feel that it's much more convenient to just drive to their local mall with its 5 square miles of free parking than "deal" with downtown.

Circle Center Mall in Indy is surprisingly bustling, and I highly doubt it has anything to do with tourism or downtown residents.

Granted, it is the flagship mall of the Simon Property Group, whose headquarters is a few blocks away. It probably gets much more careful management than most downtown malls when it comes to parking, security, and event programming.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Circle Center Mall in Indy is surprisingly bustling, and I highly doubt it has anything to do with tourism...

Really? I would think the opposite, especially considering how healthy their downtown tourism is.

[Crawford]

I was recently in Indy and found Circle Center Mall to be anything but bustling, though who knows, I could have caught it at a bad time.

I do know the Nordstrom shuttered and the other anchor store (a local chain, I think) was quite small, and with not much merchandise. The mall itself seemed pretty empty, and the top floor had been converted into a community college, I think.

Circle Center did look well planned, though. It's very well integrated into the downtown streetscape, and doesn't look cheap, unlike most 80's-90's-era downtown malls.

It also connects directly to the convention center, football stadium, and the big downtown hotels, so I would assume it gets visitors (Indy is a surprisingly big convention town, though not really a tourist town). But I would be surprised if it were a strong performer relative to other retail properties.

[JG573]

Originally Posted by dave8721

Macy's just sold their downtown Miami building last week as well but supposedly will remain in the building as a lease.

Was a bit old post but nothing is unusual about that as now a days most companies do not own the buildings they are in as many chains have learned hard lessons from companies like K-Mart. They realized that having these buildings as the largest chunk of their assets is a death wish if they have trouble as they are hard to sell and have to maintain the property if they ever want to sell it.

I would say that was a smart idea on Macy's part because it eliminates a lot of risk for there downtown Miami store.

[ardecila]

I guess I was at Circle Center at 7pm on a Friday night right after New Year's, so that might be unrepresentative. I got the impression that it offered a destination-type experience for Hoosiers with plenty of restaurants and stuff nearby, and certainly synergizes with sporting events and conventions.

That Wholesale District is surprisingly nice, somewhat quiet but no visible blight or empty storefronts that I could see and pretty few vacant lots (other parts of DT Indy are not so lucky). Seems like they had somebody smart in charge. It's kinda chain-heavy but this is the case for almost any city of Indy's size.

[MolsonExport]

Where is the usual Miketorontonialisms?

[ardecila]

Macy's doesn't sell artisanal olive oil.

[Xing]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

you must be unaware of how tourists are drawn to macy's state street like moths to a flame. it's not just a store; it's a veritable cathedral of retail. i think tourists keep the place afloat. i would assume the situtation is similar at herald and union squares.

I think it's the former Marshal Fields that's drawing the tourists. Fu#$ Macy's.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Where is the usual Miketorontonialisms?

Originally Posted by ardecila

Macy's doesn't sell artisanal olive oil.

Won't somebody please think of the dance clubs?

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

Won't somebody please think of the dance clubs?

^ Too late, they've all moved to Vaughan and Markham.

[MolsonExport]

and definitely not to the shopping malls of Bari