Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Toronto is becoming something regardless of what you think of its attitude. Delusional is thinking a one-industry resource town like Calgary could be the national metropolis, but I'm going to walk away from this obvious flame bait, back to talking about arenas...

You were the original flame bait in this latest tangent. 5-10 years ago, you likely would have had much less resistance to your view (and in Toronto you probably get a pat on your shoulder for it), but acceptance of bashing of our only national sports league has been steadily decreasing in the rest of the country.

[ZeDgE]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Toronto is becoming something regardless of what you think of its attitude. Delusional is thinking a one-industry resource town like Calgary could be the national metropolis, but I'm going to walk away from this obvious flame bait, back to talking about arenas...

The ignorance is strong with this one..

1980 called, it wants its sterotype back.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Now, I'm not going to make an outrageous claim like Calgary will be the national metropolis in 50 years, but it will almost certainly be the leading metropolis in Western Canada... perhaps not by population (assuming Vancouver gets its shit together sooner than later)... but certainly by economic importance.

Wouldn't be any more outrageous than the fall of Montreal and the rise of Toronto in the span of 20 some years (let alone 50) Not saying it's gonna happen, but it could.

[Chadillaccc]

Sorry, Mistercorporate. But Calgary is hardly a one-industry resource town anymore. Hence how even when oil prices fell 8 months ago, we didn't go into a bust cycle, in fact, our boom has been ongoing for nearly a decade now. If we were still fully dependent on oil-extraction, our economy would have went in the shits a year ago. It's called diversification, started about 15 years ago, and it looks like it's working. Have you ever even been here? I know I was quite ignorant about Calgary before moving here a year ago, but it really is quite a good city. The only city I've liked living in more is Vancouver (I've lived in Ottawa, Toronto, Kelowna, Vancouver, and London).

Now, I'm not going to make an outrageous claim like Calgary will be the national metropolis in 50 years, but it will almost certainly be the leading metropolis in Western Canada... perhaps not by population (assuming Vancouver gets its shit together sooner than later)... but certainly by economic importance.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce

^Oh stop it. You think you're awfully smart now, don't you? Well, I guess you win, genius, though you'll notice I said 'well-designed stadium.' And by that I meant something that will make Ti-Cat fans proud.

And, by the way, you're most definitely associated with this project in some capacity, are you not? You have an awful lot of insider info for somebody not closely involved with the ins and outs of this stadium.

I am not involved with this project any longer

Originally Posted by pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce

I'm still waiting for Frankie's response.

Nice to see I was missed, and sorry - I was enjoying a weekend away from the computer - it was a glorious weekend - I had lots of fun on the golf course and walking the dog.

Did you enjoy yours?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Nathan

You were the original flame bait in this latest tangent. 5-10 years ago, you likely would have had much less resistance to your view (and in Toronto you probably get a pat on your shoulder for it), but acceptance of bashing of our only national sports league has been steadily decreasing in the rest of the country.

I can remember a time in the 90s that the only media coverage of the CFL was bashing. My first career was in television and I've never followed the party line. And as a fan of the CFL it bothered me no end. To me it was the same as the Hamilton stadium bashing here (sorry to bring that up again) Its easy to bitch and it's cheap and lazy journalism (hello Steve Simmons).

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in sugar coating or that everything is sunshine and roses but what went on in the media in the 90s re the CFL was the equivalent of kicking somebody non stop in the head when they're on the ground. Kind of like that awful Winnipeg writer Paul Friesen (seriously people of Winnipeg, how or why do you put up with that) He was still kicking failed Bomber coach Mike Kelly a year after he was gone and couldn't defend himself.

Just once I wanted to see somebody have the balls to buck the trend. And it finally happened as the planets aligned and a fan of the CFL Keith Pelley acquired the property gave it some TLC and put it back to its rightful place on the Canadian sports landscape.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by elly63

Becoming what? Take the PanAm Games as an example. Any other forward looking intelligent city would take this as a dress rehearsal for an Olympic bid and do everything they could to make it a success and prove themselves.

Toronto calls it a second rate games that it doesn't particularly want to support and believes it deserves the Olympics (for some unknown reason without proving itself) Hopefully the PanAms won't be a self fulfilling prophecy and be a disaster and embarrassment to the ROC. Of course Toronto will say the PanAMs are small time and we won't support that as their excuse for its impending failure. Boy, I hope I'm wrong.

Where are you getting this nonsense from? All infrastructure and facilities for PanAm/Parapan 2015 are on schedule and look fantastic! Subway stations will be renovated to reflect PanAm countries, the olympic village is large and well thought out, the Union Station revitalization, York University subway extension, Waterfront Toronto developments, Queen's Quay boulevard beautification and expansion, Union-Pearson airport rail link, new stadium and olympic swim facilities, etc. all look lovely and are transforming this region. The PanAm games bring half as many athletes as the Olympics and double the athletes from a Winter Olympics, I haven't met anyone who considers them small time. That being said, the group that brought the PanAm's to Toronto are the same ones who are preparing a 2024 bid, this will be our dress rehearsal for an Olympics but they'll be of value in their own right. Many of our transit expansions to the suburbs and the thousands of Latin American visitors will certainly add a buzz to this city and give us good exposure among new free-trade partner countries. The PanAm preparations have already transformed Toronto and will likely give it a solid foundation and portfolio when the IOC decides on a host city for 2024.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

All infrastructure and facilities for PanAm/Parapan 2015 are on schedule and look fantastic! all look lovely and are transforming this region.

You're a fan of the Hamilton stadium?

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

I haven't met anyone who considers them small time.

That's not what I've been reading. If what you say about the attitude of the PanAms were true I'd be heartened but it seems to go against much of what we've read and heard about the GTA and the Pan Ams

Is anybody going to show up or is it beneath them like the Argos?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

http://www.nysun.com/sports/nfls-new-hot-market-is-north-of-the-border/64892/

Toronto tried to start a non-CFL football franchise with the WFL Toronto Northmen in the 70's. The Canadian government under pressure from the CFL, blocked the move. I have no problem with supporting Canadian leagues and organizations, heck Toronto has been doing that for a long time, but the amount of hate and petty jealousy we get from other cities every time we get anything, do anything or even receive dollars from any level of government is infuriating. Any other Canadian city would jump at the chance for an NFL franchise and all the American tourists/dollars/exposure it would bring, but if Toronto has the chance then suddenly we have to reign ourselves in, hold ourselves back and 'take the hit for the team'. Then we get accused of being anti-patriotic. I call BS on that, its time Toronto started following it's own interests rather than be the nice guy every time. Support Canadian organizations when our interests align, but focus on growth and prosperity and compete for every dollar and citizen, the rest of Canada seems to be doing just that...its time that Toronto wised up and realized how the game is played by other Canadian cities. The best way we can contribute to a strong Canada is to build a wealthy and growing metropolis, not subsidizing small town dreams.

It's comments like that this last one that will get in you into trouble and lose respect in discussions such as these.

If we continue with our topic here...

Montreal is a bigger and arguably more sophisticated city than two thirds of the cities in the NFL. It's hardly a "small town".

Vancouver is bigger than 7 or 8 NFL cities.

Edmonton, Calgary and Ottawa are all in the same ballpark population-wise as Buffalo, Jacksonville and New Orleans which are in the NFL.

And the NFL of course also has Green Bay, which is smaller than all of the CFL cities except Regina (which is in the same ballpark as Green Bay).

So wanting an NFL team in Toronto because the CFL is somehow beneath Hogtown (not saying everyone in TO thinks this way) is not about freeing oneself from the small town dreams of the rest of Canada, but rather about chasing shiny objects from Stateside.

If that's your game, go for it. But don't try to pretend that's not what this is about.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by ZeDgE

1980 called, it wants its stereotype back.

Can I steal that?

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Sorry, Mistercorporate. But Calgary is hardly a one-industry resource town anymore. Hence how even when oil prices fell 8 months ago, we didn't go into a bust cycle, in fact, our boom has been ongoing for nearly a decade now. If we were still fully dependent on oil-extraction, our economy would have went in the shits a year ago. It's called diversification, started about 15 years ago, and it looks like it's working. Have you ever even been here? I know I was quite ignorant about Calgary before moving here a year ago, but it really is quite a good city. The only city I've liked living in more is Vancouver (I've lived in Ottawa, Toronto, Kelowna, Vancouver, and London).

Now, I'm not going to make an outrageous claim like Calgary will be the national metropolis in 50 years, but it will almost certainly be the leading metropolis in Western Canada... perhaps not by population (assuming Vancouver gets its shit together sooner than later)... but certainly by economic importance.

Thank you Chadillaccc for making a mature rebuddle to my statement, unlike some of the emotional ranting and raving going on here
I wish Calgary the best and I have been a big proponent of the Keystone (heck, even the Northern Gateway) pipeline among my circles. I'm proud of them and feel that when any Canadian city prospers, we all prosper. That being said, Calgary is clearly a resource town. Cities like Houston have NASA among other things, but they are clearly oil towns. If the oil industry collapses, so does Houston. Same with Detroit and the auto industry despite its ancilliary industries and services. The only reason Calgary isn't affected by temporary price shocks is that there are so many oil industry related infrastructure projects in the pipeline for future needs. Billions of dollars of investments with long gestation periods (many years). However, if that industry becomes redundant (not anytime soon) or collapses, Calgary too will shrink. Cities like that can prosper and grow but never become mature metropolises, history shows it. Moscow and Dubai look like exceptions, but scratch the surface and Moscow has a highly diversified economy with massive heavy industry, aerospace and federal governmental entities. The smart money knows that Dubai isn't sustainable, despite all attempts at diversification. Their airline and transshipment facilities are heavily subsidized by oil money, when that collapses it all collapses. Arabia is filled with desert boomtowns that went bust, some thousands of years old:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Shibam_Wadi_Hadhramaut_Yemen.jpg

[elly63]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Thank you Chadillaccc for making a mature rebuddle to my statement

Rebuddle? Is that like a pre-Madonna. I'm soooo baaad

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's comments like that this last one that will get in you into trouble and lose respect in discussions such as these.

If we continue with our topic here...

Montreal is a bigger and arguably more sophisticated city than two thirds of the cities in the NFL. It's hardly a "small town".

Vancouver is bigger than 7 or 8 NFL cities.

Edmonton, Calgary and Ottawa are all in the same ballpark population-wise as Buffalo, Jacksonville and New Orleans which are in the NFL.

And the NFL of course also has Green Bay, which is smaller than all of the CFL cities except Regina (which is in the same ballpark as Green Bay).

So wanting an NFL team in Toronto because the CFL is somehow beneath Hogtown (not saying everyone in TO thinks this way) is not about freeing oneself from the small town dreams of the rest of Canada, but rather about chasing shiny objects from Stateside.

If that's your game, go for it. But don't try to pretend that's not what this is about.

You do make a good point about the callousness of my last sentence there, it was not my intention to beat up on smaller towns, far from it. I want to see all towns in Canada thrive and value the lifestyles in metros of various sizes. What I intended to say was that Toronto is sacrificing some ambitions to be the good guy and support towns throughout Canada in various ways, but gets very little respect or appreciation for it, instead when Toronto aims for things outside of our country or the norm among our cities, then it is put down and discouraged. Take the Olympics for instance, because it would entail some federal funding, Toronto received a great deal of flack from other cities saying we don't want our tax dollars subsidizing Toronto's ambitions. All the while, ignoring the fact that Toronto is by far the biggest source of tax revenue to the federal government. All major Canadian cities provide far more than they get back in services, and the larger the city the larger the difference in what they get back. Similarly, the NFL is an economic boon to a city like Toronto which already has tourist attractions (the #1 tourist destination in Canada by visitors and receipts, Niagara Falls is 2nd) we're guaranteed a longterm tourist boost. However, we get a lot of flack every time it's explored, and in the past outright hostility. There is no appreciation for the disproportionate load that Toronto carries in Confederation, especially from those that benefit from it most. Most of small town Canada is heavily subsidized in terms of taxes by urban Canada, with the exception of a handful of small resource towns.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by elly63

Rebuddle? Is that like a pre-Madonna. I'm soooo baaad

What are you, 6 years old? An emotional flame baiter I see...

[elly63]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

An emotional flame baiter I see...

Only to those who ask for it.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by elly63

Only to those who ask for it.

I'm sorry I hurt your vulnerable feelings

[elly63]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

I'm sorry I hurt your vulnerable feelings

Saaaa right, I'll get over it, sniff, sniff

[Calgarian]

Wow, this thread has gone downhill.

[Chadillaccc]

Oh man... guys, seriously. This needs to stop. Please.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

You do make a good point about the callousness of my last sentence there, it was not my intention to beat up on smaller towns, far from it. I want to see all towns in Canada thrive and value the lifestyles in metros of various sizes. What I intended to say was that Toronto is sacrificing some ambitions to be the good guy and support towns throughout Canada in various ways, but gets very little respect or appreciation for it, instead when Toronto aims for things outside of our country or the norm among our cities, then it is put down and discouraged. Take the Olympics for instance, because it would entail some federal funding, Toronto received a great deal of flack from other cities saying we don't want our tax dollars subsidizing Toronto's ambitions. All the while, ignoring the fact that Toronto is by far the biggest source of tax revenue to the federal government. All major Canadian cities provide far more than they get back in services, and the larger the city the larger the difference in what they get back. Similarly, the NFL is an economic boon to a city like Toronto which already has tourist attractions (the #1 tourist destination in Canada by visitors and receipts, Niagara Falls is 2nd) we're guaranteed a longterm tourist boost. However, we get a lot of flack every time it's explored, and in the past outright hostility. There is no appreciation for the disproportionate load that Toronto carries in Confederation, especially from those that benefit from it most. Most of small town Canada is heavily subsidized in terms of taxes by urban Canada, with the exception of a handful of small resource towns.

The problem with this line of thought, is that Toronto benefits from being the corporate face of Canada. The bank profits/jobs, which are made from all parts of Canada and service all parts of Canada, get largely concentrated in Toronto, same with the insurance industry (two of Canada's biggest sectors). This then leads to other sectors concentrating there for the synergies it provides. Montreal once held that position, but since it lost it, it has become the 2nd/3rd city of Canada (definitely still 2nd population-wise). Without the rest of Canada feeding Toronto's wealth, it wouldn't be where it is today, just as the rest of Canada needs a prime city (now Toronto) to concentrate its collective wealth for more international power/clout.

But yes... Mods, feel free to delete this post and the last couple pages to get back to the stadium talk.

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For something more on-topic, there was a state of the team conference for the Riders held today; season ticket sales are at 28k for the upcoming season (capped at 30k).