Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

Amen! Right up there with Green Bay and Oklahoma City

I don't know where buddy got an NFL reference from quoting my post. I just didn't think it was a good comparison comparing the CFL and La Liga. And innocently enough, I thought the CFL and AFL would be a better comparison but was surprised to find out the economics of the AFL (salaries and payroll higher than I expected)

Yeah. Total AFL attendance is three to four times that of the CFL. Melbourne has several clubs and total attendance in that city alone is double that of the entire CFL.

Non-Melbourne clubs in the AFL have total attendance similar to the overall CFL total.

The AFL is a much bigger deal than the CFL. Sometimes I wish the CFL was like that.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah. Total AFL attendance is three to four times that of the CFL. Melbourne has several clubs and total attendance in that city alone is double that of the entire CFL.

Non-Melbourne clubs in the AFL have total attendance similar to the overall CFL total.

The AFL is a much bigger deal than the CFL. Sometimes I wish the CFL was like that.

That's what happens when a country, it's media, and corporations fully support a domestic league. Up until the last while, the CFL has survived in spite of a lack of support in some areas (Southern Ontario is still weak), being put down in media (still happens), and a lack of support from corporate Canada, although this is improving slightly.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

So why do all the CFL fan boys in these forums state that should Toronto exit the CFL, or should it bring in a parallel NFL franchise, the league will die? I don't hear them say this about any other city.

I don't think the CFL would necessarily die if the NFL came to Toronto but there would likely be major impacts, as described in post 34 here:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=145907&page=2

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Okay smart guy, who in Canada has the coin (and willing to part with it) to buy a NFL franchise, (you are aware that NFL rules prohibit corporations owning teams) and build the 70,000 (min) seat stadium? I mention the second part because I doubt the good citizens city of Toronto or the Province of Ontario will allow their tax dollars to go towards a new Stadium when they already built the Skydome and basically gave it to Rogers for free.

That's not what's in question Vanriderfan, I'm not interested in an off-topic flame war. If anyone of you are willing to put emotion aside and answer my question, I'm all for it, otherwise I'm not wasting my time on tangent topics which may shut this thread down.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Nathan

That's what happens when a country, it's media, and corporations fully support a domestic league. Up until the last while, the CFL has survived in spite of a lack of support in some areas (Southern Ontario is still weak), being put down in media (still happens), and a lack of support from corporate Canada, although this is improving slightly.

Voilà.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

That's not what's in question Vanriderfan, I'm not interested in an off-topic flame war. If anyone of you are willing to put emotion aside and answer my question, I'm all for it, otherwise I'm not wasting my time on tangent topics which may shut this thread down.

Maybe you got my type of reply because you threw down the gauntlet with the "Sooner Toronto gets an NFL team" and "2nd rate football" comments.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Okay smart guy, who in Canada has the coin (and willing to part with it) to buy a NFL franchise, (you are aware that NFL rules prohibit corporations owning teams) and build the 70,000 (min) seat stadium? I mention the second part because I doubt the good citizens city of Toronto or the Province of Ontario will allow their tax dollars to go towards a new Stadium when they already built the Skydome and basically gave it to Rogers for free.

2 billion smackeroos (franchise and stadium) and wait 20 years for a ROI. Can anyone tell me why the NFL would be any different than the Blue Jays and their history cycle. Is it the betting that could keep sellouts of 70k for years.

JMO but I think an NFL franchise would be just like the Jays. Canadian teams (for the most part) don't draw well on TV or in person in the US and aside from hockey does any Toronto team have a significant US rival ie TFC, Raptors or Jays. I think being involved in something Canadian may be more important than people in Toronto may want to believe, ie Argos vs Cats, TFC vs Impact, Leafs vs Habs/Sens To have an important rival two cities have to care and I don't think anyone in the US gives a poop about Toronto, JMO

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Nathan

That's what happens when a country, it's media, and corporations fully support a domestic league. Up until the last while, the CFL has survived in spite of a lack of support in some areas (Southern Ontario is still weak), being put down in media (still happens), and a lack of support from corporate Canada, although this is improving slightly.

CFL not worried about losing sponsors anymore
KIRK PENTON, QMI Agency March 01, 2013

REGINA - Back in the mid-1990s, the CFL's winter meetings were sometimes about whether or not the league would survive.

Fifteen years later, the commissioner is not concerned when the three-down loop loses two national sponsors in Scotiabank and RONA. Scotiabank will still advertise this season but is planning to depart at the end of the campaign. RONA, which is restructuring, is already out of the picture.

"The nice thing is, coming out of the hundredth Grey Cup, the number of companies that are lining up to associate with us has been great," commissioner Mark Cohon said.

"So I've never seen our pipeline bigger, and we're at the stage now where it's like, maybe if we don't get the right deal in that category, we'll sit on it until we get the right deal.

"We're in a place now we want to get the right deal, because there's great value in this league."

THIS AND THAT

It was difficult not to get excited listening to Randy Burgess on Friday. Burgess is the vice-president of communications and fan experience for the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group, and he was talking about some of the things that are in store for CFL fans over the next few years.

The most interesting part was technology that will, as an example, allow fans to access live cameras located throughout the stadium on their smart phones for better views of the action. Cisco's StadiumVision is already in use in other leagues, and the CFL is ready to jump into the 21st century along with them. The goal is for the fan experience to be just as rewarding as it would be if you were at home. That's no easy task "

[esquire]

If Toronto deserved a NFL franchise it would have one by now.

It is funny to see the CFL constantly being trotted out as an excuse for Southern Ontario's own shortcomings.

Is your city spending $150 million to build a rinky dink embarrassment of a stadium? Well, it's the CFL's fault for being so small time.

Is your would be world city megalopolis having a hard time standing on an even plane with Cleveland and Jacksonville because it lacks a NFL team? Well it must mean that the CFL is behind some conspiracy to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

What a joke.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

CFL not worried about losing sponsors anymore
KIRK PENTON, QMI Agency March 01, 2013

REGINA - Back in the mid-1990s, the CFL's winter meetings were sometimes about whether or not the league would survive.

Fifteen years later, the commissioner is not concerned when the three-down loop loses two national sponsors in Scotiabank and RONA. Scotiabank will still advertise this season but is planning to depart at the end of the campaign. RONA, which is restructuring, is already out of the picture.

"The nice thing is, coming out of the hundredth Grey Cup, the number of companies that are lining up to associate with us has been great," commissioner Mark Cohon said.

"So I've never seen our pipeline bigger, and we're at the stage now where it's like, maybe if we don't get the right deal in that category, we'll sit on it until we get the right deal.

"We're in a place now we want to get the right deal, because there's great value in this league."

THIS AND THAT

It was difficult not to get excited listening to Randy Burgess on Friday. Burgess is the vice-president of communications and fan experience for the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group, and he was talking about some of the things that are in store for CFL fans over the next few years.

The most interesting part was technology that will, as an example, allow fans to access live cameras located throughout the stadium on their smart phones for better views of the action. Cisco's StadiumVision is already in use in other leagues, and the CFL is ready to jump into the 21st century along with them. The goal is for the fan experience to be just as rewarding as it would be if you were at home. That's no easy task "

I think they are ok within the status quo but I think they would be (rightly) concerned if ever there was a permanent NFL club in Toronto. For the reasons I explained in the other thread I quoted: a potentially huge sponsorship drain and also loss of coverage and attention from national media (mostly based in Toronto for English-language media). It is quite conceivable that someone in Regina or Ottawa might have more total air time in their local market devoted to the new Toronto NFLs than to their local CFL club or even the CFL as a whole. Just look at how much national sports coverage the "lesser" Canadian leagues in basketball, baseball, lacrosse, and even hockey get compared to the US-based leagues where Toronto (and some other cities of course in the case of NHL and MLS) has a club. If Toronto ever got into the NFL you can sure that TSN and most of the other national media based there would go all gaga over this. The CFL would lose a lot of the national media presence that it fought hard to regain in the 90s and the 2000s.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by esquire

If Toronto deserved a NFL franchise it would have one by now.

It is funny to see the CFL constantly being trotted out as an excuse for Southern Ontario's own shortcomings.

Is your city spending $150 million to build a rinky dink embarrassment of a stadium? Well, it's the CFL's fault for being so small time.

Is your would be world city megalopolis having a hard time standing on an even plane with Cleveland and Jacksonville because it lacks a NFL team? Well it must mean that the CFL is behind some conspiracy to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

What a joke.

Amen brother!

Some NFL-in-Toronto strokers baffle me in their logic. Its nothing against the NFL in Toronto per se, its how these pro-NFL guys tie it into CFL, blame it on the CFL, and refuse to support the CFL just on that basis alone...okay, their prerogative but certainly a head scratcher...

or how about you support your own damn country for a change? Maybe the league would be a tad better off if the largest market in the league contributed some revenue for a change.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If Toronto ever got into the NFL you can sure that TSN and most of the other national media based there would go all gaga over this.

Would they? If the Toronto Bills (sic) were a Rogers controlled property (I know corps can't own NFL teams) would TSN/Bell give them the time of day or would they do counter programming. Why would TSN want to boost someone else's property?

I can understand TSN wanting to get a piece of the action but if they can't control it, much of what they would do would build the property for the rights owner. ie Rogers

TSN controls the CFL and does very well with it, Sportsnet hardly touches it

[elly63]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

or how about you support your own damn country for a change? Maybe the league would be a tad better off if the largest market in the league contributed some revenue for a change.

The only rinky-dink thing here is the GTA market. Here's what Buffalo News writer Jerry Sullivan had to say about Toronto and the Buffalo Bills on Prime Time Sports.

"Rogers was the big time and he's in there with Ralph Wilson who's small potatoes by comparison, and you're the metropolis (Toronto) and Buffalo is a little... just a shrinking city now, why would Toronto people want to be poor cousin to Buffalo, it should be the other way around"

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

Amen brother!

Some NFL-in-Toronto strokers baffle me in their logic. Its nothing against the NFL in Toronto per se, its how these pro-NFL guys tie it into CFL, blame it on the CFL, and refuse to support the CFL just on that basis alone...okay, their prerogative but certainly a head scratcher...

or how about you support your own damn country for a change? Maybe the league would be a tad better off if the largest market in the league contributed some revenue for a change.

http://www.nysun.com/sports/nfls-new-hot-market-is-north-of-the-border/64892/

Toronto tried to start a non-CFL football franchise with the WFL Toronto Northmen in the 70's. The Canadian government under pressure from the CFL, blocked the move. I have no problem with supporting Canadian leagues and organizations, heck Toronto has been doing that for a long time, but the amount of hate and petty jealousy we get from other cities every time we get anything, do anything or even receive dollars from any level of government is infuriating. Any other Canadian city would jump at the chance for an NFL franchise and all the American tourists/dollars/exposure it would bring, but if Toronto has the chance then suddenly we have to reign ourselves in, hold ourselves back and 'take the hit for the team'. Then we get accused of being anti-patriotic. I call BS on that, its time Toronto started following it's own interests rather than be the nice guy every time. Support Canadian organizations when our interests align, but focus on growth and prosperity and compete for every dollar and citizen, the rest of Canada seems to be doing just that...its time that Toronto wised up and realized how the game is played by other Canadian cities. The best way we can contribute to a strong Canada is to build a wealthy and growing metropolis, not subsidizing small town dreams.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

I call BS on that, it's time Toronto started following it's own interests rather than be the nice guy every time. Support Canadian organizations when our interests align, but focus on growth and prosperity and compete for every dollar and citizen, the rest of Canada seems to be doing just that...it's time that Toronto wised up and realized how the game is played.

http://www.nysun.com/sports/nfls-new-hot-market-is-north-of-the-border/64892/

So go for it... who exactly is trying to stop Toronto from attaining its NFL dreams? Also, that article is from 2007. What has changed since then?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

but the amount of hate and petty jealousy we get from other cities every time we get anything, do anything or even receive dollars from any level of government is infuriating. but if Toronto has the chance then suddenly we have to reign ourselves in, hold ourselves back and 'take the hit for the team'. Then we get accused of being anti-patriotic. I call BS on that, it's time Toronto started following it's own interests rather than be the nice guy every time.

Am I the only one who has the word "delusional" in their mind after reading this post.

If Toronto could ever get out of their US wannabe 80s attitude, they might become something but as the new census shows, immigration and influence are trending westward (where the jobs are). Who knows, in 50 years Calgary could be the financial, media centre of the country. Remember the 60s and 70s when Montreal used to be the number one city in Canada (now it's third) It happened there and it could happen to southern Ontario.

Oh and Toronto had a team in the CFL (Continental Football League) in the mid 60s (Toronto Rifles) That didn't work either.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by elly63

Am I the only one who has the word "delusional" in their mind after reading this post.

If Toronto could ever get out of their US wannabe 80s attitude, they might become something but as the new census shows, immigration and influence are trending westward (where the jobs are). Who knows, in 50 years Calgary could be the financial, media centre of the country. Remember the 60s and 70s when Montreal used to be the number one city in Canada (now it's third) It happened there and it could happen to southern Ontario.

Oh and Toronto had a team in the CFL (Continental Football League) in the mid 60s (Toronto Rifles) That didn't work either.

Toronto is becoming something regardless of what you think of its attitude. Delusional is thinking a one-industry resource town like Calgary could be the national metropolis, but I'm going to walk away from this obvious flame bait, back to talking about arenas...

[elly63]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Delusional is thinking a one-industry resource town like Calgary could be the national metropolis, but I'm going to walk away from this obvious flame bait, back to talking about arenas...

Don't run away, just when things are getting interesting. Don't feel pressured that some posters don't agree with you. People want to hear your ideas.

[Chadillaccc]

.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Toronto is becoming something regardless of what you think of its attitude.

Becoming what? Take the PanAm Games as an example. Any other forward looking intelligent city would take this as a dress rehearsal for an Olympic bid and do everything they could to make it a success and prove themselves.

Toronto calls it a second rate games that it doesn't particularly want to support and believes it deserves the Olympics (for some unknown reason without proving itself) Hopefully the PanAms won't be a self fulfilling prophecy and be a disaster and embarrassment to the ROC. Of course Toronto will say the PanAMs are small time and we won't support that as their excuse for its impending failure. Boy, I hope I'm wrong.