401 Interchanges

[MrSlippery519]

Any idea as to when some of this work might get started? Wonderland Interchange in particular?

Was expecting "shovels in the ground" a few months ago but have seen nothing.

[haljackey]

The reports are conflicting.

Some sources say Wonderland will start this year, and be done by 2015. Others say it will start in 2015 and finish in 2016. The MTO plan says the improvements in the London area will be done by 2016.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/hi...highway-2012/expansion-projects.shtml#s2

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by haljackey

The reports are conflicting.

Some sources say Wonderland will start this year, and be done by 2015. Others say it will start in 2015 and finish in 2016. The MTO plan says the improvements in the London area will be done by 2016.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/hi...highway-2012/expansion-projects.shtml#s2

If I read that correctly its suggesting all 3, VMP, Colonel and Wonderland interchanges will be completed by 2016?

If that is the case you have to assume work has to start sooner than later as they wont want to be working on all at the same time. Would think they will want either Colonel or Wonderland done before starting the other to avoid more traffic issues.

[haljackey]

Yes I am assuming everything will be done in 2016 but some could be done earlier than that.

Since Wonderland is an entirely new interchange it will take longer to build, especially due to it being a tunnel (I am not sure why? But whatever). I expect prep work to start soon, full construction in 2014 and have it open in early 2015, with the workload then shifting to the Highbury, VMP and Highway 4 improvements.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Yes I am assuming everything will be done in 2016 but some could be done earlier than that.

Since Wonderland is an entirely new interchange it will take longer to build, especially due to it being a tunnel (I am not sure why? But whatever). I expect prep work to start soon, full construction in 2014 and have it open in early 2015, with the workload then shifting to the Highbury, VMP and Highway 4 improvements.

Thanks, all makes sense. Hopefully we start to see something happening soon. Also agree about Wonderland interchange I do not understand that either but am interested to see the finished product.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Lot of work on our stretch of the 401 going down Colonel Talbot, new Wonderland, new Westminister overpass, Highbury, VMP a lot to be done next 4-5 years..

As far as Wonderland being an underpass it has to do with the grading. I've been to Wonderland/401 area, as it stands right now 401 is about 10 feet above where Wonderland currently ends. IMO to build an overpass that's high enough, and at least 8 lanes plus interchange in length, would require more land and money than an underpass, since the road is already below grade.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

As far as Wonderland being an underpass it has to do with the grading. I've been to Wonderland/401 area, as it stands right now 401 is about 10 feet above where Wonderland currently ends. IMO to build an overpass that's high enough, and at least 8 lanes plus interchange in length, would require more land and money than an underpass, since the road is already below grade.

Hmm interesting. I am aware that the 401 seems to be up a small hill where Wonderland ends but didn't know it was by that much. I always thought the underpass was due to local residents not wanting a overpass to blight their landscape (NIMBYism).

Although when the tunnel plan was shown, the interchange was downgraded to a Parclo-A2 instead of a A4. I also think the number of lanes that go through on Wonderland was reduced but I'm not sure on that one.
-The old plan saw 6 lanes on the overpass (2 for exiting loop ramps) and the tunnel is only 2 or 4 lanes wide now. Long term plans call for Wonderland to be 6 lanes to the 401 according to the city's corridor protection study.

Westminster Drive isn't part of the plan, and neither is Highbury after looking at it again. I would then assume these overpasses would be rebuilt next along with 6-laning the 401 from Highway 402 to 4. (That would also involve replacing the Tempo Road bridge.)
-So pretty much every 401 overpass in London will be worked on during the next few years except the 402 flyover, Digman and Wellington (which was recently rebuilt).

[Pimpmasterdac]

I'm sure the design helped placate the handful of NIMBYs in the area, but it's the grade issue for underpass. I didn't think it was that big height change until I was there in person geocaching...

From what I understand Wonderland interchange is being implemented to minimum standards, Parclo-A2, 4 lane on the 401, 2 lanes + merge lane on Wonderland underpass. However its ultimate buildout is being taken into account, 401 will be capable of holding 8 lanes when the day to expand it to that comes, Parclo-A4 when traffic increases and Wonderland underpass could hold 4 lanes + 2 full merge lanes. MTO as you said did a design for 6 lane 401, but updated it year or so ago to 8 lane 401.

All London 401 interchanges, Wellington execpted, as being redone. VMP with it's idiotic southern extension & at grade interchange, Highbury is going to hold 6 lanes (hopefully they can make Highbury southbound to 401 eastbound free flowing), New Wonderland, Parclo-A4 Colonel Talbot. Only silver lining might be the accommodation of those LCVs. Your right Westminister overpass is its own deal, since its just an overpass, doesn't really do much..

http://metronews.ca/news/london/536743/city-sings-praises-of-highway-401-investment/

[haljackey]

You know making Highbury's loop freeflowing wouldn't be that hard at all. If there was a ramp that started before the intersection it could just run parallel to Highbury for the overpass before looping to the 401. The same an be done for the other side but that one isn't used as much.

That would make Highbury SB grade-seperated for it's entire expressway bit from Hamilton Road to the 401.

[Pimpmasterdac]

My thinking exactly

Toronto did something similar to this on Victoria Park interchange. All that would need to be done is put a median on the right most lane of the overpass going, somewhere before first set of lights. Have signs indicate that, and voila free flowing!
---

[haljackey]

What the heck, I just drove on Victoria Park to get to the 401 on Sat.

Doesn't look like that now however, as I think they needed that extra lane to increase Vic Park's capacity: http://goo.gl/maps/KDWhg

[Pimpmasterdac]

Unfortunately that's what Vic Park use to be.. It was reconfigured in the 90s for some strange reason to its current form where it goes from 2 to 4 lanes immediately after Terraview for this. Now there just general lanes that have to obey traffic signals, and fade off back to 2 after 401.

But yea something that for Highbury/401 would work great. Hopefully MTO does something like that.

Pics were from http://www.vintagekingshighways.com/401/1989/401_1989_Scarborough.html

[MolsonExport]

Can somebody remind me what the butt-fuck nowhere interchange is for? St. Thomas already has more interchanges than London.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Can somebody remind me what the butt-fuck nowhere interchange is for? St. Thomas already has more interchanges than London.

Wonderland? Will make accessing 401 west easier.

Right now if you want to get to 401 east you can take the 402 to reach it, but you have to go all the way to Highway 4 to access 401 west.

In addition, making Wonderland continuous over/under the 401 will make reaching St. Thomas much easier. It connects to the St. Thomas expressway and will take some stress off Highway 4.

[MolsonExport]

Personally, the money would be better spent making London more navigable. The city badly needs more through roads and/or expanded roads. Wonderland is choked with traffic on the weekends, and is practically the only true north/south throughput until Highbury, which is equally choked. The better roads always seem to be on the periphery.

[haljackey]

Well remember that this junction is getting the majority of its funding from higher levels of government.

London sucks these days because we don't have any provincial or federal highways running through the city. That means we have to cough up the funds ourselves unlike other cities who can do cost-sharing with the province/feds on some routes. We got screwed by Harris' downloading project in the late 1990's.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Well remember that this junction is getting the majority of its funding from higher levels of government.

London sucks these days because we don't have any provincial or federal highways running through the city. That means we have to cough up the funds ourselves unlike other cities who can do cost-sharing with the province/feds on some routes. We got screwed by Harris' downloading project in the late 1990's.

If nothing else, Highway 100 should have been been kept, and extended northward. That happened under Bob Rae's government, along with Highway 126.

On and off in the past few years, I've heard local officials including the LEDC talking about lobbying to get Highway 7 extended westward to meet Highway 402. I'm not sure if they're talking about putting a four-lane controlled access highway in, or just resurrecting the old Highway 7 route and linking it to the 402 near Watford.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Highway 100 was downloaded to us by Bob Rae as a consequence of London's mass annexation in 1993. Before that Highway 100 south of the Thames, the entire airport and nearly all of 401/402 were outside our city boundaries.

It was a shit deal for London who still gets peanuts, while mass investments go elsewhere. Highway 100/VMP should still be a provincial highway or should be heavily financed by the province. It was promised to be a freeway by the province, now it seems like it's a pipe dream that will never happen..
---
From what I've read about the Highway 7 extension to 402, that LEDC and London council promotes is a controlled access freeway. Barring some massive investment into highways in Southwestern Ontario, I seriously doubt that would ever happen in a GTA centric provincial government.. As well Arva refused to allow London to plan a ring road through it, so either province would have to pony up or give London more land..

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Personally, the money would be better spent making London more navigable. The city badly needs more through roads and/or expanded roads. Wonderland is choked with traffic on the weekends, and is practically the only true north/south throughput until Highbury, which is equally choked. The better roads always seem to be on the periphery.

Keep in mind most of this is not being funded by the city, if the city was paying for this in full I would totally agree with you.

I work on Wonderland South, so I drive it at minimum twice a day, also drive to and from Windsor often for work and some family lives down there. S
o for someone like me having Wonderland connect to the 401 is a big deal. It will also pull a lot of traffic from Lambeth as right now I either back track to Wellington or I go through Lambeth and up Colonel Talbot which is a pain.

I really wish Wonderland was 6 lanes all the way from 401 to Fanshawe but that wont happen in my lifetime.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

It will also pull a lot of traffic from Lambeth as right now I either back track to Wellington or I go through Lambeth and up Colonel Talbot which is a pain.

I really wish Wonderland was 6 lanes all the way from 401 to Fanshawe but that wont happen in my lifetime.

The plan is to actually take a lane off of Colonel Talbot in Lambeth and put in wider sidewalks, landscaping and some on-street parking. Wonderland is to become the main connection to the 401 for west London.

...At least that's the plan according to a urban design seminar I attended last year. Makes sense because Wonderland is a through street and Colonel Talbot is more of a main street.