PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[gallacus]

I apologize if this is common knowledge, but what the heck is that building with the Macy's sign on it with absolutely no windows? (Street View). Is it just another part of Macy's? I didn't even know there was such a thing as a building that tall with no windows what-so-ever. I also noticed that the other Macy's building, the ornate one next door with all the windows, has its windows completely covered. Couldn't Macy's create a fantastic space inside if they renovated and uncovered all the windows? You'd think sales would skyrocket in there if they just freshened it up a bit. Just my thoughts...

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by gallacus

Is it just another part of Macy's?

Yep. It replaced the Carnegie-Illinois Building (an 1890s steel-frame highrise) in the 1950s.

Couldn't Macy's create a fantastic space inside if they renovated and uncovered all the windows? You'd think sales would skyrocket in there if they just freshened it up a bit. Just my thoughts...

It is now standard practice for department stores to be windowless. It maximizes space for displaying goods and minimizes distractions from the worship of material consumption (see also casinos).

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by gallacus

I apologize if this is common knowledge, but what the heck is that building with the Macy's sign on it with absolutely no windows? (Street View). Is it just another part of Macy's? I didn't even know there was such a thing as a building that tall with no windows what-so-ever. I also noticed that the other Macy's building, the ornate one next door with all the windows, has its windows completely covered. Couldn't Macy's create a fantastic space inside if they renovated and uncovered all the windows? You'd think sales would skyrocket in there if they just freshened it up a bit. Just my thoughts...

That's just the newer wing of what was Kaufman's, now Macy's. Generally retail would rather have the wall space instead of windows since they don't need the natural light or the open air.

Edit: Or what BrianTH said.

[doo dah]

Originally Posted by gallacus

I apologize if this is common knowledge, but what the heck is that building with the Macy's sign on it with absolutely no windows? (Street View). Is it just another part of Macy's? I didn't even know there was such a thing as a building that tall with no windows what-so-ever. I also noticed that the other Macy's building, the ornate one next door with all the windows, has its windows completely covered. Couldn't Macy's create a fantastic space inside if they renovated and uncovered all the windows? You'd think sales would skyrocket in there if they just freshened it up a bit. Just my thoughts...

It's the Men's department from the 1st floor up to 3, I think, then higher, Women's, Children's, Better Women's Sportswear, Household, and I think that is all they are using now, I think the escalators have been walled off.
Department stores used to have a separate entrance for men to shop, though I have to admit I don't know what Kaufmann's would have been before that building was built. Horne's had an entrance on Penn closer to Cecil Place (the alley way across from Fifth, next to Fifth Avenue Place), I can't recall where Gimbel's Men's department was, might have had a separate elevator like Sak's did back before they moved to the building that they left a couple months ago.
The department stores have stockroom space in between the outside walls and selling floor.

[BrianTH]

Brief info about the Carnegie-Illinois Building:

http://www.emporis.com/building/carnegiebuilding-pittsburgh-pa-usa

Some relevant images (the Carnegie-Illinois Building is the one with the arch over the entrance on Fifth):







And gone . . .

[pyrohy]

sorry if this is off topic, but i seen this and thought hey we had a similar issue its called cars and route 28. mainly the following qoute:

"Just to realise that the ancient Maya acquired all this building material to erect these buildings, using nothing more than stone tools and quarried the stone, and carried this material on their heads, using tump lines," Awe said. "To think that today we have modern equipment, that you can go and excavate in a quarry anywhere, but that this company would completely disregard that and completely destroyed this building. Why can't these people just go and quarry somewhere that has no cultural significance? It's mind-boggling."

it took years, hard labor, and in our cases penny scrapping to build many of the buildings we tear down everyday

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/14/mayan-pyramid-bulldozed-road-construction?CMP=twt_fd

[pyrohy]

I always thought it was odd that Carnegie didn't get into alot of real estate, you would think downtown even through all our crazy demolition would have many buildings baring his name



[QUOTE=BrianTH;6128007]Brief info about the Carnegie-Illinois Building:

http://www.emporis.com/building/carnegiebuilding-pittsburgh-pa-usa

Some relevant images (the Carnegie-Illinois Building is the one with the arch over the entrance on Fifth):

And gone . . .

[Evergrey]

The demolished Carnegie Building was the first steel-frame highrise in Pittsburgh (1893).

The oldest surviving steel-frame highrise in Pittsburgh is the hideously defaced Park Building (1896).

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by doo dah

It's the Men's department from the 1st floor up to 3, I think, then higher, Women's, Children's, Better Women's Sportswear, Household, and I think that is all they are using now, I think the escalators have been walled off.
Department stores used to have a separate entrance for men to shop, though I have to admit I don't know what Kaufmann's would have been before that building was built. Horne's had an entrance on Penn closer to Cecil Place (the alley way across from Fifth, next to Fifth Avenue Place), I can't recall where Gimbel's Men's department was, might have had a separate elevator like Sak's did back before they moved to the building that they left a couple months ago.
The department stores have stockroom space in between the outside walls and selling floor.

I remember taking those skinny escalators from the mezzanine level where the little cafe used to be (the one that is now in the parking garage across the street before taking the sky-walk to Macy's). I remember climbing those things each Christmas to see Santa Claus and thinking these escalators were endless! Now, you can only go as high as the 6th or 7th floor, if that. It saddens me to think that...
[QUOTE=pyrohy;6128080]I always thought it was odd that Carnegie didn't get into alot of real estate, you would think downtown even through all our crazy demolition would have many buildings baring his name

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Brief info about the Carnegie-Illinois Building:

http://www.emporis.com/building/carnegiebuilding-pittsburgh-pa-usa

Some relevant images (the Carnegie-Illinois Building is the one with the arch over the entrance on Fifth):

And gone . . .

Originally Posted by Evergrey

The demolished Carnegie Building was the first steel-frame highrise in Pittsburgh (1893).

The oldest surviving steel-frame highrise in Pittsburgh is the hideously defaced Park Building (1896).

It sure sucks to think that this building has long since gone by the wayside so long ago. It was a beauty. I just hope that they can redo the facade of the Park Building and return it to as much of its original splendor as possible.

[glowrock]

It looks like the Gardens development has finally been approved after some modifications, and Millcraft expects to begin construction by July. Great news for the area surrounding Market Square!

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/business/news/gardens-at-market-square-gets-ok-687579/

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Urbana]

Here is a rendering of the civic arena site from the Downtown plan. Certainly not official or anything. I applaud the height of the one building, but the rest of the site looks so sterile.



Image Credit: Pittsburgh state of downtown.

[pyrohy]

Originally Posted by Urbana

Here is a rendering of the civic arena site from the Downtown plan. Certainly not official or anything. I applaud the height of the one building, but the rest of the site looks so sterile.



Image Credit: Pittsburgh state of downtown.

hmm is that USS new home i see?! ha

But i agree we need to start expanding higher as we expand outward, or else we will keep demoing buildings in the downtown core to build skyscrappers

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by pyrohy

hmm is that USS new home i see?! ha

But i agree we need to start expanding higher as we expand outward, or else we will keep demoing buildings in the downtown core to build skyscrappers

While more and more high-rises would be cool, too many clustered in one place would look just awful. In my opinion, expanding high-rise developments into the "fringe" areas would give off the image of an even more vibrant core than just clustering everything in one little area.

Not to mention, the existing older buildings are what give Downtown its character. Granted, there are a number of surface lots that could be developed, but I do wonder if there are any really short buildings -- as in under three floors that are left in Downtown. If there are any of these that have little to no historical significance, then I could see those go in favor of new development...

[BrianTH]

The Carnegie-Illinois Building was famously "surrounded" by several Frick buildings (the Frick Building, the Frick Building Annex (aka Allegheny Building) and the Union Arcade (aka Union Trust Building). The story is that Frick was deliberately trying to overshadow Carnegie's building, as a result of their falling out after the Homestead Strike.

That may just be a good story, but the truth is that by the time Frick's highrises were being built in Downtown Pittsburgh, Carnegie had already sold out the Carnegie Steel Company to JP Morgan (creating US Steel), and was concentrating on his worldwide philanthropic works. So instead Carnegie's name is all over Oakland (he funded a big expansion of the Carnegie Museum complex, the first phases of Carnegie Tech's (later CMU) campus, and so forth).

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Urbana

Here is a rendering of the civic arena site from the Downtown plan. Certainly not official or anything. I applaud the height of the one building, but the rest of the site looks so sterile.

The overall density is looking better. Hopefully it continues to evolve in that direction as a result of the sorts of dynamics discussed in the Report.

[markson33]

As much as I like high rises, there just isn't enough demand. If/when US Steel leaves the tower it will open up 400,000 sf of space. That could take a while to lease.

[glowrock]

I actually think the "new" preliminary design for the Civic Arena site looks pretty good, at least upon first glance. I eagerly await to see a much more detailed proposal showing exactly what the plans are, at this point at least!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by markson33

As much as I like high rises, there just isn't enough demand. If/when US Steel leaves the tower it will open up 400,000 sf of space. That could take a while to lease.

Don't forget the 100,000 sf that will flood the market when The Gardens is completed.

[themaguffin]

The arena site could look really cool with only 3 buildings - one office, one residential and one hotel - 3 with a nice green area/park. Imagine these 3 around 20 or stories... I'm referring specifically to actual arena land and if for scale, the land (massive parking lot east - behind the arena) could be low rise residential.

There is demand for residential and a hotel most likely be viable. The only real risk is the office tower. Hell, though I would be ok if office were dropped and replaced another residential tower, but thought the mixed idea a little more ideal.

[Wave]

Originally Posted by markson33

As much as I like high rises, there just isn't enough demand. If/when US Steel leaves the tower it will open up 400,000 sf of space. That could take a while to lease.

Yes, except that there is currently little Class A office space downtown, virtually no significant contiguous space and certainly not a large chunk like the US Steel Space. I believe also that UPMC is interested in more space in that building. The rest of the space will be gone fairly quickly in my opinion assuming there is no significant additional new space built by 2017 (other than the Gardens project) and that the office to residential conversion wave continues (PMC etc.) taking current office space off the market (mostly class B & C off the market but nudging/forcing some tenants to upgrade to class A space).