[Halifax] The Vuze at South Village (Fenwick) | 106 m | 36/10/8 fl | U/C

[someone123]

In the future people might start to think of the area between Cogswell and Cunard or so as an extension of the downtown, a kind of mirror image of Spring Garden Road. I can imagine the "downtown" boundaries being South Street, Cunard, and Robie in Halifax circa 2030. If the city grows a lot I can also imagine Barrington shifting over to more upscale and chain stores; the Pogue Fado type places would end up along Gottingen. That would be pretty interesting.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by someone123

In the future people might start to think of the area between Cogswell and Cunard or so as an extension of the downtown, a kind of mirror image of Spring Garden Road. I can imagine the "downtown" boundaries being South Street, Cunard, and Robie in Halifax circa 2030. If the city grows a lot I can also imagine Barrington shifting over to more upscale and chain stores; the Pogue Fado type places would end up along Gottingen. That would be pretty interesting.

I think they need to encourage density here the most... it will do wonders to have a variety of middle class people living in these areas. I never believed the Citadel development would happen so fast and I look forward to Trinity and others.

Creating this linkage between downtown office and high density residential may be resisted by the hipsters who represent much of the extension of anti-development values in Halifax.

It is my hope that height and density can be viewed in terms of design, and that the more artistic communities of the north end will allow for densities to increase. The argument against "the wealthy" only seems to make developers less likely to provide housing that is economical to the middle class.

Also, much of the hipster class is actually upper to middle class, likely Torontonian by origin. Their perspectives, like that of the Coast, do not allow me to classify them as true Haligonians. I still know people in the square.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

I think they need to encourage density here the most... it will do wonders to have a variety of middle class people living in these areas. I never believed the Citadel development would happen so fast and I look forward to Trinity and others.

Creating this linkage between downtown office and high density residential may be resisted by the hipsters who represent much of the extension of anti-development values in Halifax.

It is my hope that height and density can be viewed in terms of design, and that the more artistic communities of the north end will allow for densities to increase. The argument against "the wealthy" only seems to make developers less likely to provide housing that is economical to the middle class.

Also, much of the hipster class is actually upper to middle class, likely Torontonian by origin. Their perspectives, like that of the Coast, do not allow me to classify them as true Haligonians. I still know people in the square.

I feel as though I'm starting to get old, because I don't know many of the stereotypes people apply to what they think is 'hipster'. I'm fairly sure that Toronto isn't the origin of hipsterism.

I'm disappointed that, to you, immigrants are not considered 'true Haligonians'.

Density will eventually be brought to the north end. There is simply too much money at stake, in terms of private developers wanting to make profit, but also from governments bringing austerity to our urban sprawl habits.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

I feel as though I'm starting to get old, because I don't know many of the stereotypes people apply to what they think is 'hipster'. I'm fairly sure that Toronto isn't the origin of hipsterism.

I'm disappointed that, to you, immigrants are not considered 'true Haligonians'.

Density will eventually be brought to the north end. There is simply too much money at stake, in terms of private developers wanting to make profit, but also from governments bringing austerity to our urban sprawl habits.

That wasn't the implication if you mean new to Canada, I meant CFAs (come from away, esp. Ontario). People like Tim B have no right to come to Halifax and tell everybody what to think. This is largely the case.

New York is the origin of hipsters, but in true Torontonian fashion the need to copy NYC cannot be resisted.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Has this ever been an issue in this forum? Seems like most posters here don't live in Halifax, yet tend to offer excellent information/opinions.

Me... I've lived here all my life but ironically, lately hesitate from offering my opinion as it may not necessarily jibe with the views of some individuals... and thus I've decided that the negativity it brings is not worth it to me (after all, it's only "the internet"). (This comment is not directed towards Worldly Haligonian, just to be clear, I'm just replying to the latest post in the thread).

That being said, I find the views expressed here from everybody in all walks of life to be very interesting and refreshing and I am actually impressed on the amount of thought and energy put forth by many people, some who don't even live here, towards this wonderful city. Thanks to all of you.

[someone123]

There probably is some truth to the idea that it takes a while for a person to understand local issues well, but being born in Halifax doesn't necessarily make you well-informed about the city. The problem I have with many of Tim Bousquet's points isn't that he's not from Halifax (I'm not sure where he's from), it's that a lot of them are based on shaky assumptions and logic. His articles feel like they are based on a political angle rather than careful consideration of the facts.

Overall Halifax would be better off if more people moved there from other places and if there were more openness to new ideas from around the world. Many of the planning problems there seem to be the result of a lack of modern ideas and creativity; a lot of people are stuck in the mindset of tweaking failed plans and policies from 1970's-era Nova Scotia when there are plenty of better alternatives out there. This holds not just for HRM but for the provincial government as well. Economic development in NS has an antique feel; there's a disproportionate focus on unions, declining industries, and EI, and comparatively little focus on using younger home-grown talent effectively. Or at least that is what it looks like from here.

I suspect the only viable way for Halifax to be a strong city in the future is for it to focus on building a "grassroots" modern economy (to complement stuff like shipbuilding) as well as some showcase neighbourhoods with a really high quality of life (good amenities and low cost of housing) that can attract skilled people from Canada and abroad. There's a big opportunity for Halifax because the top tier of attractive North American cities (NYC, SF, etc.) is extremely unaffordable for most people. Halifax has some of the same advantages and its own unique local flavour but is much more affordable.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Has this ever been an issue in this forum? Seems like most posters here don't live in Halifax, yet tend to offer excellent information/opinions.

Me... I've lived here all my life but ironically, lately hesitate from offering my opinion as it may not necessarily jibe with the views of some individuals... and thus I've decided that the negativity it brings is not worth it to me (after all, it's only "the internet"). (This comment is not directed towards Worldly Haligonian, just to be clear, I'm just replying to the latest post in the thread).

That being said, I find the views expressed here from everybody in all walks of life to be very interesting and refreshing and I am actually impressed on the amount of thought and energy put forth by many people, some who don't even live here, towards this wonderful city. Thanks to all of you.

Agreed. I'd add that using phrases like "come-from-awayer" doesn't make Halifax seem very open to newcomers. Where would Calgary and Toronto be if residents of those cities said: "You're not from here, so we don't wanna hear from you"? Fresh perspectives are valuable.

Also, Worldly said his sentiments were directed not to people from other countries, but other Canadians coming to Halifax (Toronto hipsters, I guess) But Tim B. IS from another country (U.S.) In any case, every gentrifying neighbourhood has a vocal activist community, from the DTES to Parkdale to Mile End to the North End. It's not just a bunch of come-from-away 20-something Dal students butting their noses in, or something.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

...being born in Halifax doesn't necessarily make you well-informed about the city.

Thanks.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Agreed. I'd add that using phrases like "come-from-awayer" doesn't make Halifax seem very open to newcomers. Where would Calgary and Toronto be if residents of those cities said: "You're not from here, so we don't wanna hear from you"? Fresh perspectives are valuable.

Also, Worldly said his sentiments were directed not to people from other countries, but other Canadians coming to Halifax (Toronto hipsters, I guess) But Tim B. IS from another country (U.S.) In any case, every gentrifying neighbourhood has a vocal activist community, from the DTES to Parkdale to Mile End to the North End. It's not just a bunch of come-from-away 20-something Dal students butting their noses in, or something.

Well, come from away is more a directly Canadian term, but it applies to Americans as well (maybe even worse). The fact of the matter is its a maritimer phrase and it simply refers to the history of the region and Halifax. It is meant to reference how the participation in Canada has been somewhat detrimental given the previous historical significance of the region.

I was born and raised in Halifax until age 18 and I've been living there and abroad (as well as Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver). Currently I live in Europe.

Halifax is going through transition, but the attitude of some who come to the city is that they know something more than locals. In some cases this may be true. However, there are things that some of us value in being generation Y and from Halifax that I rarely get from people who didn't grow up in the city (or on the peninsula for that matter). My two cents.

I think alot of the people who come to Halifax help shape it in different ways, but I find most of the activists are simply misplacing the world's problems with Halifax's problems.

[worldlyhaligonian]

e.g. if you aren't from here, don't be an obstacle to progress

This is not to say that some locals aren't major barriers = HT

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Well, come from away is more a directly Canadian term, but it applies to Americans as well (maybe even worse). The fact of the matter is its a maritimer phrase and it simply refers to the history of the region and Halifax. It is meant to reference how the participation in Canada has been somewhat detrimental given the previous historical significance of the region.

I was born and raised in Halifax until age 18 and I've been living there and abroad (as well as Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver). Currently I live in Europe.

Halifax is going through transition, but the attitude of some who come to the city is that they know something more than locals. In some cases this may be true. However, there are things that some of us value in being generation Y and from Halifax that I rarely get from people who didn't grow up in the city (or on the peninsula for that matter). My two cents.

I think alot of the people who come to Halifax help shape it in different ways, but I find most of the activists are simply misplacing the world's problems with Halifax's problems.

Well said!

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

I suspect the only viable way for Halifax to be a strong city in the future is for it to focus on building a "grassroots" modern economy (to complement stuff like shipbuilding) as well as some showcase neighbourhoods with a really high quality of life (good amenities and low cost of housing) that can attract skilled people from Canada and abroad. There's a big opportunity for Halifax because the top tier of attractive North American cities (NYC, SF, etc.) is extremely unaffordable for most people. Halifax has some of the same advantages and its own unique local flavour but is much more affordable.

Yesyesyesyes.

The city is so close to that already--in so many ways it's just a hop, skip, and a jump to realizing that vision, since the built environment and some of the social/economic necessities are there (the fact that it's the regional hub for one, the universities for another). There are just a few barriers standing in the way, not the least of which is, as you say, excessive focus provincially and locally on "on unions, declining industries...and failed 1970s planning policies."

My experience with people who have visited Halifax, or who are from elsewhere but came to attend school and then left, is that most people love it. You say the name of the city and people will instantly tell you they love that place. Its uniqueness is a big part of that--the geography, the buildings, the sort of maritime urbanity and history it has. It doesn't feel like just anywhere, it feels like Halifax. But sometimes I get the sense from some locals that its very Halifax-ness is an albatross holding the city back, and that making the city into more of a generic anytown is the solution. These people sound like they stepped off a bus from 1965. (More parking! Wider roads! Tear down old buildings and put up shopping malls/skyscrapers/whatever!) I'm simplifying, but I get a feeling sometimes Halifax's greatest strengths go unappreciated locally.

Whenever I hear that we need more parking downtown, or that some old building should be done away with, I think of the reasons that people are clamouring to live in cities like SF, or Boston, or Vancouver. It isn't 'cause the parking is cheap and abundant, that's for sure.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Yesyesyesyes.

The city is so close to that already--in so many ways it's just a hop, skip, and a jump to realizing that vision, since the built environment and some of the social/economic necessities are there (the fact that it's the regional hub for one, the universities for another). There are just a few barriers standing in the way, not the least of which is, as you say, excessive focus provincially and locally on "on unions, declining industries...and failed 1970s planning policies."

My experience with people who have visited Halifax, or who are from elsewhere but came to attend school and then left, is that most people love it. You say the name of the city and people will instantly tell you they love that place. Its uniqueness is a big part of that--the geography, the buildings, the sort of maritime urbanity and history it has. It doesn't feel like just anywhere, it feels like Halifax. But sometimes I get the sense from some locals that its very Halifax-ness is an albatross holding the city back, and that making the city into more of a generic anytown is the solution. These people sound like they stepped off a bus from 1965. (More parking! Wider roads! Tear down old buildings and put up shopping malls/skyscrapers/whatever!) I'm simplifying, but I get a feeling sometimes Halifax's greatest strengths go unappreciated locally.

Whenever I hear that we need more parking downtown, or that some old building should be done away with, I think of the reasons that people are clamouring to live in cities like SF, or Boston, or Vancouver. It isn't 'cause the parking is cheap and abundant, that's for sure.

I typically find myself agreeing with most of your posts, and this is yet another case. The main point being that Halifax needs to develop as a greater version of Halifax, not a mini-Vancouver or mini-Toronto. Allow heritage buildings to coexist with progressive new construction with the goal in mind to make it a vibrant, viable downtown with a good mix of office, residential and retail. Mainly, keep the unique Maritime flavour of Halifax alive and don't try to make it a "generic city" by simply putting up as many pretty, shiny skyscrapers as you can fit on the penisula.

While it's true that some locals don't appreciate how special Halifax is, I believe that if Halifax can develop to be the best "Halifax" it can be, even the crustiest of the carmudgeons will grow to appreciate it.

While I tend to disagree a little regarding parking, this is mainly because there aren't any really good transit options currently available to make it practical for those who don't live in the downtown core to travel there. I feel it's a matter of practicality at this moment in time to maintain parking options until proper transit can be put in place. The downtown is a wonderful place to visit and it shouldn't be available only to those who live there.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

That wasn't the implication if you mean new to Canada, I meant CFAs (come from away, esp. Ontario). ....

Ouch. My parents moved to NS before I was born, they raised 4 kids in the province, owned small businesses, volunteered, and took part in community events. More than 36 years later, and people still call them come from aways to their faces.

Good olde fashioned Maritime hospitality.

[essaysmith]

Wow, I didn't even know people still referred to others as CFAs. I thought that ended in the 60's. Sad to see it continues.

[Nifta]

I moved here from Britain three years ago and thought that CFA was just a funny, self-deprecating joke about old attitudes. But I heard it used in all seriousness in a business meeting a few months back. I actually did a double-take.

[fenwick16]

We are getting off topic here.

I keep hoping to read that Templeton Properties has decided to go full steam ahead with the Fenwick renovation after all. (although it wouldn't bother me if they decide not to extend the building - I think tall and slender is more appealing but with a new exterior cladding). Why not just reclad Fenwick tower and then maximize the new low rise units?

[worldlyhaligonian]

Things move slowly in Halifax, we need more people that come to contribute. That's all I mean by the reference. There is a well known trend that many who flock to the maritimes are against its development because they are escaping "overdeveloped" place they come from. That's what I was implying... it sucks to be from a place when people move there and try to shut down development. I'm not saying locals don't do this as well, but the people that move to Halifax should support its densification because they are adding to it and it needs to be more people efficient, meaning better public transportation but also taller buildings.

I hope to see this move forward as well and I'm sure given all the effort and approval that it will.

As long as its not turned into a hole (which Fenwick won't become during its reno), there are many priority sites downtown. The Bank of Canada proposal would be a coup with the Nova Centre and the Citadel redevelopment going on.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Nifta

I moved here from Britain three years ago and thought that CFA was just a funny, self-deprecating joke about old attitudes. But I heard it used in all seriousness in a business meeting a few months back. I actually did a double-take.

Its half joke, half serious. You have to understand how small the maritimes are. Some people grow up entirely with the same group of people.

I would consider myself from away at this point but will consider Halifax always to be home. It was good to connect with DJ when I was in the HRM a few and get a run down on the development scene.

What I can gather, Halifax is really sort of booming but things that were held up aren't moving too rapidly.

Are thing divisive in terms of development as they were a few years back or is the anti-development movement, led by locals or people who have come to Halifax, been significant? Is The Coast readable now and just about entertainment/arts as it would be best positioned?

[Duff]

A new rendering has been released for Fenwick Towers.