What to do about the National Capital Commission (NCC)?

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

This is hopefully a step towards abolishing the pathetic NCC, while keeping its assets under Heritage Canada (i.e. parks, parkways, museums) and getting it out of the development business.

Everything the NCC does can probably be transferred to Parks Canada, Heritage Canada and/or PWGSC (Real Property Branch).

[Capital Shaun]

Baird talks about the NCC and admits the condos built at Lebreton Flats "are not the most inspiring".
Link: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Be...439/story.html

[Dado]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

This is hopefully a step towards abolishing the pathetic NCC, while keeping its assets under Heritage Canada (i.e. parks, parkways, museums) and getting it out of the development business.

None of the assets are being transferred to Heritage Canada, or anywhere else. It's a bureaucratic transfer. It might even cut down on the paperwork.

The museums aren't under NCC control anyway; the NCC has a hand in their planning and design, but not beyond that.

The Canal is already Parks Canada.


I don't see any reason to read anything else into this other than what Baird is claiming.

Perhaps with planning festivals out of its purview, the NCC can focus on things actually in its mandate.


And if the City of Ottawa would show some initiative and start seeking some autonomy and relief from the Province of Ontario, perhaps we would be in a better position to start demanding some changes from the NCC. But so long as we keep acting provincially and Provincially, there's no reason for anyone at the federal level to take us seriously because we do not take our position as the national capital seriously.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

This is hopefully a step towards abolishing the pathetic NCC, while keeping its assets under Heritage Canada (i.e. parks, parkways, museums) and getting it out of the development business.

Could you name one single example of something Heritage Canada has achieved lately that proves that they would do a better job? Anyone who thinks Parks Canada is doing great stuff today does not live in one of those parks.

The NCC got into events and interpretive programs back in the 1970s because public spaces and buildings are nothing but "containers" for activities, and it is often difficult to design successful containers without thinking of the contents first. This is why we ended up with a lot of empty windswept concrete plazas in the 1950s and '60s, because misguided architects and planners thought they were "cool" and didn't have to think of what people were actually supposed to do in them. On the flip side, it is difficult to really succeed in organizing events and activities without direct input in spatial planning. So nice looking book with a crappy story, or great story in a crappy book, take your pick.

Heritage Canada is going to be such a bloated department, planning national occasions from Vancouver to St John's along with doing local things in the capital. One or the other is going to suffer. They'll end up having to create a mini NCC inside HC and we'll end up with the same thing, except it will be fully controlled by the government of the day instead of being tempered by the power of Parliament.

Government is run by people just like you and me, and if any of our public institutions have become "pathetic" (the NCC has done may great things in the past), it is likely the fault of the people running it, not the institution itself. The solution lies in putting competent people in charge. I say let's start with Harper.

[Haussmanniste]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The Airport Parkway gives you a little taste of what happens when the NCC transfers reponsibility to the municipality. What was a somewhat scenic and uncongested roadway with manicured lawns has turned into an overused road (because of municipally added road connections) and a totally abandoned and unmaintained landscape. The consequence is that Bronson Avenue has been turned into King Edward Avenue No. 2. A semi-expressway.

I would not trust the city with any NCC lands. Frankly, I wouldn't trust the city building LRT along the Ottawa River Parkway. It is almost a guarantee that it would soon be an eyesore.

Can't help but agree with you. The City of Ottawa has a knack for ruining nice lands. They don't have the funding to continue maintaining them the way the NCC can. The city is not a rich entity, it is run by the want of revenue, votes and development. Councillors require votes so they vote in favour of development to keep the developers happy (they pay large sums of money to election campaigns) and will allow the adding of road connections to win a few more votes to the nearby population that will use them. Then, because of new developments, they can have a bit more cash to work with (especially if it's in the core. i.e. previously unused lands).

[S-Man]

Yes, by all means hand transit over to the NCC. Brilliant idea. Then, when a new bus needs purchasing or a bus route needs to be changed to suit riders (You won't get LRT under the NCC - it doesn't burn dino juice the way they like), they can study the situation for 7 to 20 years. Because they have money, as you said, and all the time in the world....

Yes, with the track record they have in this city, who wouldn't want the NCC to plan and organize their transportation future? I have a lot of beefs with the city, but switching to the NCC would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Yes, by all means hand transit over to the NCC. Brilliant idea. Then, when a new bus needs purchasing or a bus route needs to be changed to suit riders (You won't get LRT under the NCC - it doesn't burn dino juice the way they like), they can study the situation for 7 to 20 years. Because they have money, as you said, and all the time in the world....

It was the RMOC that created the Transitway concept in the 1970s while the NCC of the same era proposed a regional rail system.

Until the 2008 TMP, the City was still completely obsessed with the Transitway and its dino juice buses - that's how we got the 2003 TMP that envisaged the continued running of buses on Albert and Slater for at least another two decades. Light rail was to be a side show and the project they did plan and nearly executed was so badly planned that it likely would have killed off further light rail expansions for another generation.

The City has historically been no friend of light rail and even today its dogmatic insistence on Transitwayesque design standards is making light rail unnecessarily expensive.

Yes, with the track record they have in this city, who wouldn't want the NCC to plan and organize their transportation future? I have a lot of beefs with the city, but switching to the NCC would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Frankly neither has got much of a record to be proud of. And the governance structure around here just allows each to fob things off and blame the other (King Edward, anyone?). The City does it, Gatineau does it and so does the NCC. But if all of them, plus the provincial transport ministries, were amalgamated into one regional transportation commission such a commission would be forced by necessity to stop engaging in this petty internecine warfare (or at least to internalize it). The NCC wouldn't be able to "protect" its lands from use while the City wouldn't be able to lazily propose to use NCC lands rather than make hard choices (when was the full Parkway LRT route ever a good idea?), including securing corridors in a timely fashion and proposing the use and taking of MTO lands.

[kevinbottawa]

What's up with all the vacant NCC retail spaces? The optometrist has been gone from the Chambers building for over a year. Now the Randstad employment agency just left Chambers. Both the Stacaro furniture store and the Soma gym closed at 700 Sussex in recent months and the Nicholas Hoare space has been empty for over a year. Something's wrong.

[Haussmanniste]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

What's up with all the vacant NCC retail spaces? The optometrist has been gone from the Chambers building for over a year. Now the Randstad employment agency just left Chambers. Both the Stacaro furniture store and the Soma gym closed at 700 Sussex in recent months and the Nicholas Hoare space has been empty for over a year. Something's wrong.

The Laurier Optical spot has been empty for a while but from a business point of view, I can't see it being good location. There isn't much traffic for people looking for glasses there. It would seem to me to be a spot for a tourist-driven business.

The Soma gym closed because they went bankrupt. The former Nicholas Hoare location is actually undergoing some sort of preparation now for what I assume is a new store. Contractors are hard at work.

[Kitchissippi]

I've always thought that the ground floor of the Chambers building would be great for — I'm ducking in expectation of an onslaught of rotten tomatoes — a gussied-up Tim Hortons. There was a short-lived Cafe Supreme there when the reno'd building first opened, but I think "Canada's coffee shop" would do a better job of drawing people and livening up that space facing the War Memorial with some outdoor seating. Something pedestrian and unpretentious would be nice there for a change.

[McC]

I was going to say a nice 2-story bistro fronting on to the square (basically wrapping around from Darcy's); but your Flagship Timmies idea is not terrible. It would probably be stupidly popular, and I can see millions of (tasteless) pictures being taken in front of the Cenotaph and Tomb of the Unknown Soldier with patriotic coffee cups in hand, rims proudly rrrrrrrolled up.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I've always thought that the ground floor of the Chambers building would be great for — I'm ducking in expectation of an onslaught of rotten tomatoes — a gussied-up Tim Hortons. There was a short-lived Cafe Supreme there when the reno'd building first opened, but I think "Canada's coffee shop" would do a better job of drawing people and livening up that space facing the War Memorial with some outdoor seating. Something pedestrian and unpretentious would be nice there for a change.

A Timmies (or something similar) isn't that crazy of an idea.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by McC

I was going to say a nice 2-story bistro fronting on to the square (basically wrapping around from Darcy's); but your Flagship Timmies idea is not terrible. It would probably be stupidly popular, and I can see millions of (tasteless) pictures being taken in front of the Cenotaph and Tomb of the Unknown Soldier with patriotic coffee cups in hand, rims proudly rrrrrrrolled up.

I agree, a nice bistro (or even a pub) would be better then a Timmies but either options would bring more foot traffic than an eye clinic ever could.

[Haussmanniste]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

I agree, a nice bistro (or even a pub) would be better then a Timmies but either options would bring more foot traffic than an eye clinic ever could.

The bistro idea isn't crazy at all. Wasn't there a restaurant there before the renovations happened? Another possibility would be a Bridgehead (change of location or Starbucks). The problem with a coffee shop is that given the fact that the main radius around the location is an open plaza, it's not as appealing as a spot with high-rises completely surrounding it. Although, Tim's could draw people there. The closest one, if I'm not mistaken is at Metcalfe and Slater so they could be missing out on business.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by Haussmanniste

The Soma gym closed because they went bankrupt.

I wonder if they went bankrupt because the rent was too high. That was Nicholas Hoare's complaint.

[kevinbottawa]

Now that both the optometrist and Randstad are gone, that space in Chambers would make a great TV studio. It would provide some great shots of Confederation Square, the Chateau Laurier, and the Government Conference Centre. An even better idea would be for the NCC to use it as an Infocentre since they already own it and the corner unit has been on the market for a while. There's huge tourist traffic in that area. More than the World Exchange Plaza.

[J.OT13]

I love the Bistro idea and, imo, Timies seem a little cheap for such an important location.

As for the tourist info kiosk, it would be a great spot (as long as it doesn't take up the whole space). The WEP is a terrible location. Who the hell would know where it is and who the hell would visit Ottawa's CBD? I can pretty much guarantee that the number of tourists actually visiting the Info Centre as gone down significantly.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I love the Bistro idea and, imo, Timies seem a little cheap for such an important location.

Tim Hortons is probably more congruous with the concept of the war memorial than any chichi bistro. It was even the centre of social life in the Kandahar base. In any Canadian town, veterans and soldiers are more likely to congregate at Legion Halls and Tim Hortons, not in fancy cafes.

[McC]

exactly.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Tim Hortons is probably more congruous with the concept of the war memorial than any chichi bistro. It was even the centre of social life in the Kandahar base. In any Canadian town, veterans and soldiers are more likely to congregate at Legion Halls and Tim Hortons, not in fancy cafes.

I'm not talking about the war memorial per say, I'm talking about the corner of Elgin and Queen as a unique signature location in Ottawa. We shouldn't be opening one of the 4 big chain coffee shops that we see at every other corner (Tim Hortons, Starbucks, Bridgehead, Second Cup), Irish pub or pharmacy for that matter (Shoppers).

It should be something original to Ottawa, a one of a kind restaurant.