Winnipeg Construction

[Only The Lonely..]

I'm going to be a bit of a wet blanket here..

But, I'm not sure I understand where all of this demand is coming from for living in 400 square foot shoeboxes?

With the exception of a few smaller projects on Waterfront, our downtown hasn't had any significant residential highrise construction in over 20 years (think Fort Garry Place, The Evergreen towers, etc)

Why the demand for multiple 30 something story towers all of the sudden? I would think these projects would canibalize each other.

I'd love to hear everyone's theories.

[Shinook]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

I'm going to be a bit of a wet blanket here..

But, I'm not sure I understand where all of this demand is coming from for living in 400 square foot shoeboxes?

With the exception of a few smaller projects on Waterfront, our downtown hasn't had any significant residential highrise construction in over 20 years (think Fort Garry Place, The Evergreen towers, etc)

Why the demand for multiple 30 something story towers all of the sudden? I would think these projects would canibalize each other.

I'd love to hear everyone's theories.

You are a wet blanket, aren't you? I've read through your posts and all you seem to do is whine and complain about this city. You have next to nothing positive to contribute. There have been some very positive construction announcements, and yet all you do is complain. Can you see anything positive in any of this? Anything at all?

[1ajs]

2015!!!!!!!!!

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

I'm going to be a bit of a wet blanket here..

But, I'm not sure I understand where all of this demand is coming from for living in 400 square foot shoeboxes?

With the exception of a few smaller projects on Waterfront, our downtown hasn't had any significant residential highrise construction in over 20 years (think Fort Garry Place, The Evergreen towers, etc)

Why the demand for multiple 30 something story towers all of the sudden? I would think these projects would canibalize each other.

I'd love to hear everyone's theories.

I'm not going to pretend like I know exactly what the factors or reasons are, but if I were going to theorize:

- I'd say ultimately it boils down to people and a combination of timing/market factors coming together....though "people" are who will be spending money on the housing/hotel rooms. Can't speak for office space as I know even less about that, but Winnipeg is becoming stronger as a central hub for many offices or business ventures in North America, other offices are looking to relocate downtown

- Winnipeg is adding a greater number of persons per year than any other city in Canada under a million CMA...no doubt this is playing a role, with more people come more tastes and some of these people would be in the market for downtown housing options.

Housing options in general are not exactly plentiful in the city, there's been a trend for constant demand, and additionally there seems to be a distinction between people who can afford new condos/homes vs. those who cannot and look towards rental properties. Rentals, especially, are hot in Winnipeg. There's a lot of demand for rental spaces, and I think Heritage Landing is banking on that specifically downtown. The other developments seem to be aimed mainly at condo buyers and/or hotels.

- Manitoba has for some time now been more effective at retaining young professionals than in the preceding decades where said professionals left to other provinces; many of the young professionals are moving downtown since that is where the action is happening, from places to go out to work generally focused downtown, to extra-ciricular activities (i.e. Jets); to a smaller degree there is also a cascade effect where post-uni, groups of friends decide to move in the same general area or building and positive word is passed around. It might not be the majority of people, but even several hundred individuals over a few years would mean several hundred units sold.

- Some of it is based on future projections (like the hotels, timed to open with expected increase in visitors with CMHR, Jets games, Bombers games, increased demand on business meeting space, post-Expansion of WCC business traffic, etc...there's likely a compound effect in general) and population curves/forward market trends for the housing

- For private & outside investors it makes sense to capitalize on market trends; those who are capitalizing on projects in the Peg have identified it as a hot market...folks like Glasshouse, Fortress...

For example, through some representatives of a Toronto development group that built my place in Calgary, apparently in general Winnipeg is an under the table hot spot for investors, and garnering much attention. They just have not done enough research into the market because they've focused on other markets, and possibly they may not have the ability to focus on more than a few projects at a time, but regardless the point was: Winnipeg is a market many outside investors feel they might be missing the boat on. I bet we'd be surprised how many proposals Winnipeg gets. If these developments end up successful, expect even more proposals to go Winnipeg's way.

- People who are from the Winnipeg market are aware of the market opportunities (d-condos, Heritage, Creswin, CentrePoint, MPI, other local developers, etc..) and I assume are just moving forth with their projects that make sense to them, however.....

- ....to that end, some of these projects may indeed canibalize others to varying degrees, but such is the nature of free market enterprise...its the same for any city where many towers are built around the same general time-span.

I'm sure there are more factors I am overlooking or have no idea of, but this is what popped in my mind

[Reed Solomon]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

But, I'm not sure I understand where all of this demand is coming from for living in 400 square foot shoeboxes?

I don't need a big footprint for living. And I would find it more convenient to maintain a smaller residence. Plus saving money is always nice.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by Biff

Location of the taller building is the corner of Graham and Garry.

no one builds a building of that size without a major tennant signed, any speculation? At one time was GWL looking? or Wawanesa?

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by Reed Solomon

I don't need a big footprint for living. And I would find it more convenient to maintain a smaller residence. Plus saving money is always nice.

but you are not saving $. typically (but not always) condo's you get less sq ft for same amount of $. (ex) 1750 sq ft house with basement + yard might be $350k. But for $350k you are getting a 1300 sq ft condo with no basement, thus a lot less square footage for same price.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Biff

Location of the taller building is the corner of Graham and Garry.

Yeah. I was just meaning the official official announcement from Fortress with pictures, maybe a map, details, etc.

But from all accounts its the block north of Graham between Garry and Smith. The St. Regis will likely be torn down and possibly the other smaller building on Garry. Two towers, one 36 storey with another smaller one. Original budget was $80M as released before, now said to be $150M. Mixed use. One tower was to be future, but sounds like the whole complex is going ahead. Is that accurate?

[Biff]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Yeah. I was just meaning the official official announcement from Fortress with pictures, maybe a map, details, etc.

But from all accounts its the block north of Graham between Garry and Smith. The St. Regis will likely be torn down and possibly the other smaller building on Garry. Two towers, one 36 storey with another smaller one. Original budget was $80M as released before, now said to be $150M. Mixed use. One tower was to be future, but sounds like the whole complex is going ahead. Is that accurate?

The site is Smith - Graham - Garry. Taller tower is on the Graham and Garry corner. A 3 or 4 storey podium will fill the entire site with a parkade incorporated. The second shorter tower will go on the Smith and Graham corner. The St Regis will remain i believe. The podium is commercial, the towers are residential so they don't need a GWL to be a tenant in the towers.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Biff

The site is Smith - Graham - Garry. Taller tower is on the Graham and Garry corner. A 3 or 4 storey podium will fill the entire site with a parkade incorporated. The second shorter tower will go on the Smith and Graham corner. The St Regis will remain i believe. The podium is commercial, the towers are residential so they don't need a GWL to be a tenant in the towers.

Right on. You have some inside info on this one?! No need to answer. And I was thinking of the Carlton possibly being torn down for development. So a 36 storey residential tower, wow.

[Cyro]

Image Source from:
maps.google.ca


Area in Question for scale of developement:

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Cyrodill

Image Source from:
maps.google.ca


Area in Question for scale of developement:

And to clarify further, the google map is misplacing the Church. It should be across the street from where its labelled.

[Cyro]

Yes..true and the marker (red) is just a search point, for the area in question.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by lilwayne

ok

sooooo.....
when will all these projects get off the ground tired of all this talk.........

...

do u guys predict by 2016 half these will be built or under construction
or half wont go past the proposal staage

if these along with hsc hotel , mb hydro bldg, chrm, alt hotel, and heritage landing.. will change the face of our dt thats like 13 new bldgs in less than 10 yrs.

For fun, I'm going to take my own honest guess at optimistic start dates for each of these:
I have no inside knowledge.

d condos 22 stories: Currently marketing, site prep this fall, pile driving late fall / early winter? (pending presale goals met).

glasshouse 22 stories
Going ahead with ALT hotel project... they're just not 'there' yet.

fortress development 36 stories
Announcement coming June 30th (or whenever last-day of Q2 is). No work until at least next year... its a big project, and big projects seem to take a long time to get through all the red tape here.
I'm optimistic about this one though because it will couple VERY nicely with the SHED developments.

bond tower 11 stories
Not going to happen. Maybe others know different, but I don't see it...

so po development 11 stories
This is a major joint effort between MPI and Longboat, and is a PRIME site in the SHED, so its understandable its taking some time. I would hope this can start late fall, or next spring.

p&m project 27 stories
This came out of the blue for me, so... no idea. A Westin Hotel (and a new major hotel) would be huge, and would feed off of the soon-to-be expanded Convention centre, NHL-related travellers, expected bump in tourism, etc. It sure (as %$#@) would be nice to see the WORST (right at Portage and Main? Come on!) surface lot in the city finally GONE.

wag expansion 3 stories
No idea. Can we throw the Pantages expansion on here too as a 'no idea?'

lakeview hotel 12 stories
No idea, hotel market is suddenly getting competitive with new projects.

wcc hotel -- 22 stories
Part of the WCC expansion; starting later this year?

mcphillips st station casino hotel 17 stories
Starting soon? We're only just NOW seeing a spring thaw.

[flatlander]

My turn to be the wet blanket, but who really wants to live on Graham/smith/garry? I'd much rather live at D Condo or Glasshouse.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by flatlander

My turn to be the wet blanket, but who really wants to live on Graham/smith/garry? I'd much rather live at D Condo or Glasshouse.

Proximity to the 'Action!' i.e. the SHED, and all the potential it has...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by flatlander

My turn to be the wet blanket, but who really wants to live on Graham/smith/garry? I'd much rather live at D Condo or Glasshouse.

There are a few highrises full of people no more than a couple of blocks away on Smith (Le Chateau York, 160 Smith St., soon in the Place Louis Riel which is converting to rental apartments). There are condos apparently selling well a couple blocks away at Portage and Hargrave. There are large heritage conversion apartment buildings a block and a half north (Lindsay Building, Avenue Building).

The bottom line is that people have demonstrated a pretty clear willingness to live in the area, so I don't doubt that Fortress can sell condos at Graham and Garry. The appeal of living in a brand new building (which I'm sure will be marketed aggressively) in a convenient location makes me think it should sell, assuming that prices are reasonable.

[Shinook]

Originally Posted by esquire

There are a few highrises full of people no more than a couple of blocks away on Smith (Le Chateau York, 160 Smith St., soon in the Place Louis Riel which is converting to rental apartments). There are condos apparently selling well a couple blocks away at Portage and Hargrave. There are large heritage conversion apartment buildings a block and a half north (Lindsay Building, Avenue Building).

The bottom line is that people have demonstrated a pretty clear willingness to live in the area, so I don't doubt that Fortress can sell condos at Graham and Garry. The appeal of living in a brand new building (which I'm sure will be marketed aggressively) in a convenient location makes me think it should sell, assuming that prices are reasonable.

And SoPo will only enhance the desirability of the area for people to want to live in. It's great news all around.

[Mininari]

Can't stress the 'brand new building' selling point enough either. Lets face it, alot of the housing in the downtown area (with a few notable recent renovations) is pretty old.

[Shinook]

Originally Posted by Mininari

Can't stress the 'brand new building' selling point enough either. Lets face it, alot of the housing in the downtown area (with a few notable recent renovations) is pretty old.

I think it's great to have that kind of mix in the area. Some people will want brand new, hip, urban places to live, while others may prefer classic century old houses with their own unique charm.

I just can't stress enough how excited I am for all this development! I really believe our downtown will be completely different from what it is now 5-10 years down the road, and all for the better