Urban vs Suburban - 2 styles enter, one style leaves!

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by patm

I don't know... For personal experience, when I worked in Sundance people would have meetings downtown all the time and I never once heard of any body taking the train.

Yeah, but when you stepped out the door of your office, was there a train station within a couple hundred feet?

[Radley77]

Interesting article by TD Economics:
http://www.td.com/document/PDF/economics/special/ff0113_toronto.pdf

Highlights
- Toronto’s vibrant downtown core has seen a revival of population growth over the last five years, driven in large part by a growing Echo Boomer segment.
- This highly-skilled, highly-educated, and young population is trading the larger and (relatively) more affordable housing choices of their parents for proximity to transit, work, and amenities.
- The growing desire to locate downtown has prompted a wave of condo development. An increasing number of businesses are also acquiring office space in the core in order to be closer to this growing labour pool. New business creation, employment gains and population growth in the downtown core are now outpacing that in the surrounding suburbs, reversing a decades long trend of exactly the opposite.
- Overall, these trends represent a huge opportunity for the City of Toronto, but it does create challenges. Notably, the city’s already-strained road and transit infrastructure could face additional pressure.

[Radley77]

Apparently there is a "big" story on Global tonight at 6 pm about a plot by homebuilders to take control of city council.

[Radley77]

EXCLUSIVE: Video obtained by Global News reveals Calgary developer’s plan to control city council

CALGARY- It is a rare glimpse into some of the backroom politics going on in Calgary, ahead of October’s municipal election.

Global News has obtained a recording of a November meeting hosted by Cal Wenzel, founder of Shane Homes. In the video, Wenzel presents a plan to defeat select members of city council who are perceived to be anti-development.

Some in the housing industry have been clashing with the city over growth and who should be responsible for infrastructure.

Caught on tape

In the video, Cal Wenzel tells the group, apparently made up of about 150 industry leaders, that while Mayor Nenshi is unbeatable, that may not be the case for other council members.

“Dimitri asked me the question a little earlier on, ‘Can anyone beat Nenshi?’ And I said ‘no, likely not’. I am not sure what he’s hoping for – I don’t think he can and I had in my notes here, ‘I don’t think he is beatable. But you know when I talked to [former mayor] Dave Bronconnier, Dave is sitting there saying, ‘it doesn’t matter if you’ve got the mayor on your side or not. You need eight votes. As long as you have eight votes you can control whatever happens.’

“So for whatever and however, we have to ensure that we end up with the eight votes.”

Wenzel runs through a list of councillors he approves of and says he is supporting with campaign donations including Ward 12 Councillor Shane Keating, Ward 13 Councillor Diane Colley-Urquhart, and Ward 14 Councillor Peter Demong. He also names those he does not support or is unsure of.

“One time where [Ward 6 councillor Richard] Pootmans was kind of guided as to maybe vote for us, when it comes up he forgot to ask any questions and forgot to vote the right way.”

Wenzel claims millions of dollars a year are at stake for developers.

“Unless we get somebody in there that is you know really going to be on our side, rather than the dark side you know, we are talking another four years after next October.”

Preston Manning’s name is also mentioned at one point in the tape. Wenzel talks about a big donation from members of his group to the right-wing think tank founded by the former opposition leader.

“…in order to bring Preston on board, 11 of us put up $100 thousand, so a million-one, so it’s not like we haven’t put up our money and we are going to be there to put up again, and we are also supporting candidates.”

The reaction

After seeing the tape, political analyst Duane Bratt called the recording ‘a smoking gun.’

“It is clear there is an expectation from the developers that you will do our bidding,” says Bratt. “And there will be no independence, we will tell you how to vote.”

Mayor Naheed Nenshi says the way the group is apparently going about its agenda for change is especially revealing.

“When you see this live, captured on tape in this way, it’s very distasteful,” Nenshi says. “And as viewers watch this, I think they will agree this is shadowy, weird and unpleasant.

“I have no idea what this small group of extremely wealthy individuals is so mad about. Our housing starts are really healthy. They all admit the industry is extremely profitable.”

Nenshi is now calling for an investigation into possible wrong-doing based on what he’s seen in the video.

Cal Wenzel has declined Global News’ repeated requests for comment until he sees the video.

Former mayor Dave Bronconnier has denied through his lawyer that he ever gave any advice to Wenzel or is in any way associated with his group.

Preston Manning is out of the country. The Manning Centre is aware of the video and is considering its response.

http://globalnews.ca/news/502394/exclusi...developers-plan-to-control-city-council/

This is absolutely disgusting. I've been suspicious of how the homebuilder's association has been manipulating "weak media" and this has totally confirmed my suspicions.

[Calgarian]

This will just lead to a further divided council and less work actually getting done. I still don't get the massive opposition to Nenshi that the home builders association has (Stanley I can understand). There is TONS of land available to keep building crappy sprawl. I also don't get why more of them don't get into urban multifamily projects, there is a lot of money to be made there too.

[Jimby]

So confirmation they own DCU among others.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Radley77

EXCLUSIVE: Video obtained by Global News reveals Calgary developer’s plan to control city council

http://globalnews.ca/news/502394/exclusi...developers-plan-to-control-city-council/

This is absolutely disgusting. I've been suspicious of how the homebuilder's association has been manipulating "weak media" and this has totally confirmed my suspicions.

Wow! And I thought Montreal was bad.

BTW - I think this needs mention in more places than this specific thread. This is a big, big story!

[RyLucky]

Sheeeeeit


No doubt this sort of thing happens all the time, but it's definitely concerning if (1) councillors are in a position where they feel in debt to their donors or feel they need to please deep pocket donors to succeed in future campaigns, and (2) wealthy business owners feel they have the right to buy the loyalty of elected officials. Overall, I think developers don't have much to be mad about. They are kind of acting like spoiled babies. Citizens and elected representatives have the right to disagree with council's decisions, but buying council loyalty is a shady way to get your way. I wouldn't want to buy a home from someone who thought this was ethical, and I wouldn't vote for someone who thought this was ok either.

[fusili]

Wenzel et al just got screwed.

[kw5150]

We need this kind of shakeup. Behave everyone!

[simster3]

I also have a problem with the emergence of the Manning Centre training potential and current local politicians on how to behave/vote more conservative. The last thing I think we need is a divided party system in municipal elections/council. It seems to me that the Manning Centre is behind things like this and will likely be a large benefactor of this 1.1M of political manipulation and put it toward their goals of bringing this type of division. People on the right have started doing this in Toronto where some candidates were given free training by advisors and managers from the CPC party.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by simster3

I also have a problem with the emergence of the Manning Centre training potential and current local politicians on how to behave/vote more conservative. The last thing I think we need is a divided party system in municipal elections/council. It seems to me that the Manning Centre is behind things like this and will likely be a large benefactor of this 1.1M of political manipulation and put it toward their goals of bringing this type of division. People on the right have started doing this in Toronto where some candidates were given free training by advisors and managers from the CPC party.

Suggest you move this over to an appropriate political thread. I moved the original post over to "municipal politics".

[suburbia]

Pretty happy the Gates of Panorama is getting a Save-on-Foods. Very close to my place - just follow the path around the pond, and it is right there across from the kids playground!

[Radley77]

One other thing I was thinking about was that I really think these issues hurt the brand of developers like Shane Homes. It's fairly easy to infer how these developers are trying to influence politics in a negative way. That's going to drive a lot of highly skilled/educated and high income people away from these areas.

I don't want to live in a community with people that are intellectually dishonest.

[monocle]

I'd like to know who the other 10 $100k money guys are.
Are they all sprawlers? Do inner-city builders/developers have congruent problems with the sub-urban guys?

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Radley77

One other thing I was thinking about was that I really think these issues hurt the brand of developers like Shane Homes. It's fairly easy to infer how these developers are trying to influence politics in a negative way. That's going to drive a lot of highly skilled/educated and high income people away from these areas.

I think it certainly impacts people's choices IE who they select as their builder (Shane Homes is primarily a builder, not developer).

Originally Posted by Radley77

I don't want to live in a community with people that are intellectually dishonest.

Don't know where Cal lives, but it is likely in a fancy part of town. Maybe Mount Royal even.

Originally Posted by monocle

I'd like to know who the other 10 $100k money guys are.
Are they all sprawlers? Do inner-city builders/developers have congruent problems with the sub-urban guys?

It is a good question, and it speaks to the lack of logic in having this discussion on this thread as opposed to the municipal politics one where is belongs.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by monocle

I'd like to know who the other 10 $100k money guys are.
Are they all sprawlers? Do inner-city builders/developers have congruent problems with the sub-urban guys?

I could hazard a few guesses, but I don't want to speculate.

The development industry isn't a black/white thing. Many developers do both suburban and urban stuff. Big developers, such as Brookfield, have a dedicated multifamily division, for example, while also doing a crap load of suburban singles (as well as a commercial division etc etc). Others specialize in a certain product in either case. I believe Shane does only singles and maybe some semis. Homes by Avi has a multifamily division called Avi Urban (they did the Block with Sturgess). Many are slowly making the transition to more multifamily and more inner city development.

That being said, those doing inner-city multifamily don't always see eye-to-eye with the larger factions of UDI and CHBA on all issues (even though both have inner city/multi-family divisions).

Not a simple issue at all.

[Radley77]

I would like to know more about the financiers for the Manning Centre. Especially those beyond just Shane Homes... I think the Manning Centre should come clean with who is financing this and also the politicians that it is advising. After all, Manning Centre is listing its activities for tax purposes as "charitable."

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Radley77

I would like to know more about the financiers for the Manning Centre. Especially those beyond just Shane Homes... I think the Manning Centre should come clean with who is financing this and also the politicians that it is advising. After all, Manning Centre is listing its activities for tax purposes as "charitable."

Wrong thread.

[monocle]

Wrong thread?
The question is: Who is this particular faction of money-backing builders (the 11 mentioned in the Global video)? Are they primarily suburban or urban?

It makes a difference. If both sides are out to control council, then what? If it's only the suburban types, then what? Maybe it's Shane and 10 innercity types...

/:/