Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[Comrade]

To further the discussion on mixed-income development - specifically on 600 West. Another problem we're facing is the lack of mixed-use development. There isn't much in that area - especially centered around walkable neighborhoods. Now, you could make the case that it'll come with the completion of the North Temple TRAX line - but it's also important to remember that light-rail alone doesn't necessarily spur development (400 S today is still limited in its walkability, even a decade after the creation of the line).

Moreover, the projects being proposed, unfortunately, have an inward construction (Citifront, Bridges) and fail to interact with the the street at all. That's one thing housing has on apartments - homes inherently open up to the street, while apartments do not.

Hopefully this new project will do that and not mirror Citifront, which, at the end of the day, is a typical suburban apartment complex just outside the heart of the city.

But right now, the additional residents don't mean a lick if it doesn't bring about retail options that make this area a true neighborhood. Sadly, North Temple isn't exactly walkable and it's not just because of the seediness of the street - it's a massive stretch and a fairly large avenue. It's more State Street and less Main, if you know what I mean.

[Viperlord]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

The RDA Board aka the City Council are discussing city owned property located just south of 400 South on 900 East. It used to be the Kiwanis Recreation Center. There were three submittals being discussed. I think the three designs are actually pretty good: http://www.slcrda.com/meetingsmin/2013/BOD/04913/8AKiwanisFelt.pdf If you look at the packet, the initial elevation for the recommended project is mislabeled. Keep scanning to better elevations.

They will also be discussing the hotel project south of the ESA. They are asking for a loan from the RDA Board to help pay to construct the new parking garage.

They show the North Sixth project elevations on page 30 of that pdf....

The North Sixth Project (Phase I) creates a vibrant, multi-use, mixed-income development on
one of the premier transit-oriented sites in the state. Steps away from North Temple’s Trax
and Frontrunner junction, adjacent to I-15, and just 2 blocks north of Salt Lake’s Intermodal
Hub, the North Sixth site is within walking distance to virtually every form of transportation
available in Utah.

[Comrade]

Okay. It's far better than I could have imagined. Though, I could do without the Mary mural - though, I do worry about the emphasis on low-income in every single development in that area. So, those concerns remain.

[UTPlanner]

The mural on the proposed structure is only being shown as an example of what a mural could look like on the structure. This mural already exists on a building at 200 East and 200 South.

You are finding a lot of mixed income projects being proposed throughout the city. Reality is that it is extremely difficult to finance a completely market rate multi family development or a condo development at all. Most projects right now are being funded through multiple lenders and often one of the lending partner is an organization that requires low to moderate income housing. Until the lending market changes these are the types of development that you will see.

[Comrade]

I have no problem with mixed-income projects. I do wish we could better integrate them into the city instead of having entire areas of nothing but mixed-income, as I fear those neighborhoods are more prone to failure than a healthy mix of all incomes.

[Viperlord]

Bridges at CitiFront update:

I got a call today with a person from the owner of the Citifront apartments/condos. He's asking for some work to be done on a land survey so that they can get financing for the last 2 buildings of the citifront phase 2 condos. They'll probably be apartments I'd bet.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

The RDA Board aka the City Council are discussing city owned property located just south of 400 South on 900 East. It used to be the Kiwanis Recreation Center. There were three submittals being discussed. I think the three designs are actually pretty good: http://www.slcrda.com/meetingsmin/2013/BOD/04913/8AKiwanisFelt.pdf If you look at the packet, the initial elevation for the recommended project is mislabeled. Keep scanning to better elevations.

They will also be discussing the hotel project south of the ESA. They are asking for a loan from the RDA Board to help pay to construct the new parking garage.

I only saw two designs for the Kiwanis property. The other one was the 600 West project unless I missed something.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Viperlord

This building demolition permit was submitted to the City today:
Commercial Demolition
Record BLD2013-02081 :
DEMO EXISTING STRUCTURE
370 S WEST TEMPLE
&
356 S WEST TEMPLE
Salt Lake City
https://aca.slcgov.com/Citizen/Cap/CapDe...17&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=

https://aca.slcgov.com/Citizen/Cap/CapDe...18&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=

UT Planner, Aren't developers required to substantiate their proposed development before they get approval for demolition?? In other words, shouldn't the city have received renderings and plans for the proposed development there already?

[Orlando]

Will someone please post the images of the proposed developments from Viperlord's pdf link? including the 600 west project? I am having trouble accessing my flickr account.


Btw, here is the project description and project highlights of the proposed North Sixth project (600 West):

The North Sixth Project (Phase I) creates a vibrant, multi-use, mixed-income development on
one of the premier transit-oriented sites in the state. Steps away from North Temple’s Trax
and Frontrunner junction, adjacent to I-15, and just 2 blocks north of Salt Lake’s Intermodal
Hub, the North Sixth site is within walking distance to virtually every form of transportation
available in Utah.
PROJECT HIGHLIGHTS
• Creative reuse of a listed Superfund site
• Ground-level retail
• Soaring, locally-painted building murals
• Unique, people-oriented unit designs
• Green Communities & Energy Star 3.0 certified
• Project densities of 90+ an acre

[stayinginformed]

Huge numbers have been placed on the 644 City Station apartments. When lit up at night the numbers are white, and during the day they look black. 1 Bed 1 bath apartments start at $950 up to 3 bed 2 bath for $1670 in this building.


Also, the Liberty Gateway apartments are coming along quickly. They are already up to the third floor on the south side of the building.

[ajiuO]

Ok.. I looked at page 30 and have totally changed my mind... Lets keep the houses... The mural thing is just ridiculous. example or not.

[Viperlord]

600 west north temple



400 South on 900 East

[Orlando]

Thank you Viperlord! Weren't there one or two other proposals for the Kiwanis replacement?

[stayinginformed]

I really like the mural idea. There is not nearly enough public art in the city especially outside of the central business district.

[slc801]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

Ok.. I looked at page 30 and have totally changed my mind... Lets keep the houses... The mural thing is just ridiculous. example or not.

The mural looks ridiculous on the building, but the actual mural in real life, at 2nd S and 2nd E, is amazing. It is one of my favorite public art pieces in the city.

[delts145]

Agreed slc801, the actual mural is a beautiful work.

It's a little difficult to get an exact fix on the new 600 W. No. Temple Project from it's drawing. It does appear like it's going to be a noteworthy addition to the area though. If completed as the elevation suggests, there will be both a generous amount of design elements and excellent materials chosen. I'm cautiously very optimistic. I think the project will be interesting and very attractive, if completed as it seems to be presented initially.

I also have a very positive initial impression of the 4th So. Project.

[Reachforthesky]

Originally Posted by (Eco)nomy_404

While I understand the difficulties and perplexities behind annexation, I simply don`t understand how SLC finds itself in its current predicament. I mean, when you look at the numbers, it is truly staggering! SLC`s official 189,899 population figure only represents 16.57% of the metro`s 1,145,905. I have pulled some figures from other cities just to show how wacky this is when compared to other metros and their respective core cities:

Percentage of Metro Population in Core City:

64.5% - Colorado Springs, CO
61.5% - Albuquerque, NM
46.6% - Omaha, NB
45.6% - Oklahoma City, OK
44.3% - Spokane, WA
33.3% - Boise, ID
29.9% - Las Vegas, NV:
23.8% - Denver, CO:

43.7% - Sample Average

16.6% - SLC

My question may be naive, but I am just wondering how virtually every other comparable city I can think of for SLC has been able to keep 1/4 to 2/3 of its metro population in the core city. If SLC had the average core/metro percentage as these other areas (40-45%), it would have a city population of 450,000 to 515,000 - which would seem a little more consistent with comparable metros. I would even take Denver`s relatively low percentage of 24%, which would make SLC`s population 275,000. But really, 190,000 is pitiful. It so inaccurately reflects the city`s true size!

PS:

I just pulled some historical data for SLC and it looks like it was in line with these percentages in 1960. At the time, SLC has the EXACT SAME population as today (roughly 189,500). The metro, however, was at about 406,500 (I added the county populations of Salt Lake, Tooelle, and Summit counties to get this figure). SLC`s 1960 population would have represented 46.6% of the total metro population at the time. Obviously, the reason for this decline was the rapid population boom in the suburbs. However, this is not a valid excuse, as many other cities experienced similar growth trends. They, however, were somehow better able to annex the rapidly growing areas on their peripheries. What happened in SLC that would explain why it was not able to annex these areas as other like cities were? Had annexation kept pace with metro population growth over the past 50 years, SLC would have a current population figure of 535,000. Imagine the potential tax revenue the city would have today were that to have been the case!

Now Holladay is piping up and wanting a piece of the Millcreek action:


http://www.ksl.com/?sid=24730676&nid=148...into-holladay&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-1

[Future Mayor]

For those that are lamenting 600 W and N. Temple becoming more run down due to more rentals and more mixed income, do you have an issue with the East Downtown Neighborhood?

The reason I ask, is the the vast majority of residential units in the entire East Downtown Neighborhood are rentals, including mixed income buildings and some buildings entirely low income. I for one think that East Downtown is one of the best neighborhoods in the city.

[UTPlanner]

At the Kiwanis Felt site, the elevations shown were the elevations that the RDA Board selected. If you scroll further in the PDF that I listed yesterday, you will see the other 2 projects that were submitted but were not selected for various reasons.

To answer somebody's earlier question about demolitions. In SLC, when applying to demolish a structure you must submit the request to demolish with a building permit for a new permitted use OR you can bond for the cost to landscape the entire site. In this case they submitted a building permit for a small office building at 360 S. West Temple.

Also I keep hearing people say, "keep these houses" but I also want more mixed use in the area. Those are conflicting statements to me. Frankly, the commercial and retail uses will follow more density. Without density, mixed use that includes commercial/retail, will never come to an area. Furthermore, the question to keep the houses is not even on the table at the moment. Multi-family residential is a permitted use in the Gateway Mixed Use Zoning District. The city may be able to dictate some design elements but that's it. I think the building will be a great addition to the neighborhood and I think you will continue to see further development in the area as most of the properties in the area are owned by development companies or UTA and UTA has plans for a TOD on their property which is on the NE corner of 600 West and North Temple.

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by Comrade Reynolds

But you're talking about annexing areas that are, by far, less dense than the city of Salt Lake. Millcreek is a suburb and brings little value to the city outside increasing its population.

I doubt if Salt Lake annexed its neighbors that it would automatically lead to development downtown. There is no correlation in that regard.

Originally Posted by Reachforthesky

Now Holladay is piping up and wanting a piece of the Millcreek action:


http://www.ksl.com/?sid=24730676&nid=148...into-holladay&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-1

Residential areas are still lucrative to a city by increasing its tax base. These houses all pay taxes into the city coffers, which gives it more money to use for development, attracting companies, etc. The Millcreek area would bring in 65,000 more people to the city (a 34% increase from its current population figure.) Assuming these houses are valued at the city average of $154,000 (Feb 2013 estimate), multiplying that value by the city property tax rate (0.004575% as of 2011), this area would bring in an additional $705/house. Assuming average household size to be 2.5 in the area, that is 26,000 more households. 26,000 x $705 = a $18.33 million jump in tax receipts. It would certainly help to bring in additional revenues that could be used for development purposes and give the city more negotiating power against its suburban competitors. It would also bring our core-to-metro population ratio up to 22.3%, roughly Denver`s rate

As we now see, Holladay is interested in taking in part of this area to increase its own tax base. It is too bad that SLC is not more pro-active about annexation. According to the article, though, it does look like there is a group trying to get the township annexed into SLC. I would encourage all who live in the area to work toward annexation into SLC. We certainly DO NOT need another suburb in this valley! That`s my anyway.