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  #3121  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2013, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade Reynolds View Post
LOL! It's not prime real estate!

If it was, we'd be getting a better deal than cheap low-income apartments.
Oh really? Your now a expert in real estate?

Willing to bet developers are standing in line trying to buy up all that land up and down North Temple. So quick to judge a development that you have yet to know ANYTHING about. So far here's what we know.....

1. 115 unit apartment building
2. 5 stories in height
3. mix of market rate, special needs, ADA and affordable units
4. 24-72 North 600 West

That's it. We don't yet know who the developer is. We don't yet know what the building will even look like. We don't really know anything about this development, but yet you're already bitching about it. How typical.
You whine when there's development outside of downtown complaining that we need more development downtown that would bring in people to downtown, and you whine when there's development in downtown.
No it's funny, there's those who want to see more urban developments near Trax stations and downtown, however when one is develop we still whine about it. That's all you ever do on here is nick pick every single development and find those FEW things that are wrong with it. Hell, I too want what's best for downtown, but really, is there sure a thing as a perfect development?
Don't be so quick to judge. For all you know this could be nothing like Citifront.
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  #3122  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2013, 10:43 PM
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Why do I feel that really low income people are not really welcome downtown? Just because there's those who make less money doesn't mean there cheap. You'd find plenty of hard working people living in these so-call cheap apartments who try there best to keep it nice. There's always going to be drug dealers, in every apartment, in every city. That's part of growth.
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1. "Wells Fargo Building" 24-stories 422 FT 1998
2. "LDS Church Office Building" 28-stories 420 FT 1973
3. "111 South Main" 24-stories 387 FT 2016
4. "99 West" 30-stories 375 FT 2011
5. "Key Bank Tower" 27-stories 351 FT 1976
     
     
  #3123  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2013, 10:53 PM
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FYI, Citifront and Bridge are not low income housing, they have mixed income housing, only a certain percentage are for low income individuals, and as Projects said, a complex isn't trashy simply because it has a percentage of low income residents.

A complex is trashy due 100% to management, and to say that the a new development will be just as trashy, simply because it is across the street from others is simply ridiculous. If a new one is built, again I have mixed feelings about tearing down these houses, if the management puts simply demands and pressure on the residents, as well as keeps the common areas clean and well maintained, that building will be in much greater demand than Citifront and Citifront will have to step up their game in order to compete with better apartment buildings.

A couple of reviews were posted regarding Bridges, could it be that management finally stepped up their game and decided to clean house, thus all the eviction notices. That's what it sounds like to me. I know the management company for both Citifront and Bridges @ is working to clean up the properties, rehab the units, and bring it up to a much higher standard, even though it has a percentage of low income units in the building.
     
     
  #3124  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2013, 11:08 PM
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It's not that low-income people aren't welcome downtown. It's that we don't build development smartly. When you have an entire area of nothing but rental units, regardless if they're low or mixed income, you double the odds of that neighborhood going south fairly quickly.

Like I said in another post, I've experienced it. As a kid, I grew up lower middle class and my parents couldn't afford to buy a home, so, we rented. We lived on a street where every apartment, duplex and fourplex was a rental unit. The area, even with decent management from time to time, fell apart in the 90s, at the height of the gang problem in SLC, because it attracted a certain type of people. It wasn't that everyone who lived there were gang members or drug addicts - but it only takes a handful to bring down an entire neighborhood and it becomes more a problem when you have an increase in rentals.

Now I get mixed-income development - but it only works when you mix it in with established areas. A mixed-income apartment complex in the heart of SugarHouse is not going to automatically make the area less desirable. But if you have nothing but mixed-income apartments, apartments also geared for special needs and fixed incomes, it does become a bigger problem.

Less middle income residents will want to live there and then, over time, as we've already seen, the area decreases in desirability because those middle income residents move out. Read the reviews on Citifront - reviews that aren't old, and you'll see what I mean:

Quote:
The worst place to live. Would not let us out of our lease even after we witnessed drug deals in our hallway.
Prostitution, Drugs and homeless people if you don't mind this you can spend way to much and call this home.
That was from two days ago. Didn't another forumer look at renting there and was appalled by the conditions? Maybe it'll get better - but that's a big chance to take in an area that doesn't have many chances left.

That really is my point here. We need to better develop these areas and I don't think we're doing it. Ideally, this holdings company could take the money it would invest in demolishing these houses and building an apartment project and invest in rehabbing these homes to put on the market so that middle income families can move into that neighborhood.

Or demolish those homes and build new affordable ones like they did right next to the freeway between 300 North and 400 North a few years ago.

But when you build an entire area of rental units, in an already lower income neighborhood, you're only positioning yourself for problems down the road because there isn't much to invest in a rental unit - and those who do rent are not looking to remain there for long. It's generally a temporary move, and that high turnover does not make a sustainable neighborhood.

But I do think rental housing, even if it's still rentals, is better than rental apartments because it at least gives the resident something to be proud of - when you're living in an apartment, you're at the entire beck and call of your neighbors.
     
     
  #3125  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2013, 11:58 PM
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FYI. The last I herd Bridges are still intended to be sold as condos when the market recovers and a demand is there..

On a similar note. I wonder how much the cheep cowboy properties building along 500 west and the decline of gateway will drive down the value of the condos at gateway.
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  #3126  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ajiuO View Post
FYI. The last I herd Bridges are still intended to be sold as condos when the market recovers and a demand is there..

On a similar note. I wonder how much the cheep cowboy properties building along 500 west and the decline of gateway will drive down the value of the condos at gateway.
I'd like for more condo projects to help balance out the apartment rentals.

It's sad how the Gateway seems to be in a bad transition. Hopefully it bounces back.
     
     
  #3127  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 12:31 AM
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I personally think we should rip down cityfront. (Not bridges) and build a bowling alley there.
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  #3128  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 12:50 AM
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FYI cityfront is 40% low income.. Way to high... It should only be around 5-10%


And I'm not trying to harp on low income people.. But statistically speaking... When you group to many low income people together in a small area it creates gang and drug problems... This is largely because of single parents who have a hard time watching and controlling their children... Creating this situation on north temple is particularly bad because of the drug and prostitution problems that already exist in the area because of all of the trash motels and dilapidated businesses.
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  #3129  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 4:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade Reynolds View Post
It's not just a SLC thing. The city of Miami only has a population of 408,568 in a metro of 5,564,635 - which puts their core population at what, 7% of the entire metro population?

So, it isn't that unique. San Francisco's population is only 18% of their entire metro. Kansas City's population is only 22% of its metro. Boston is 13% of their metro.

It just depends on the city. Some decided to annex - others decided to consolidate their county as one city government (Louisville did this not too long ago). Others, like Utah, decided it was best to keep the city's historical boundaries.
Well, I suppose when any city gets big enough, its core will dwindle in population percentage compared with the metro because it can not physically expand anymore. San Francisco is the second densest city in the country, so I wouldn`t say they have much of a problem with growing their core population. Boston is also not very comparable to SLC being that it is so much larger and that many of the areas now considered part of the metro were separate cities at one point. In Salt Lake`s case, these areas were empty, unincorporated tracts of land just 50 years ago - West Jordan was only a fraction of its current 100,000+ population with just a couple thousand residents in the 60`s. West Valley was similar, as wast much of the western side of the valley. I wouldn`t mind if SLC only had only 10% of the metro`s population if we had over 5 million people. From what I could find in metros comparable to SLC in population and demographic development, however, it is clearly an out-lier.

I remain unconvinced that SLC`s current model is helpful for core development. Its lack of population and influence on the metro relative to its size makes it vulnerable to suburban competition that will continue to suppress high-rise development in the core for years to come. I just wish the core city had more control over zoning and development. Omaha already has buildings pushing 50 and 60 stories even though its metro is 20% smaller than Salt Lake's. Don`t get me wrong, SLC is developing nicely and has come a long way from where it has been. I just feel like we are so far behind peer cities in some areas. I suppose there isn`t much that can be done at this point, so why bother wallowing in the negative. SLC still has a lot going for it, despite the suburban headwinds curtailing the city from achieving its full potential.
     
     
  #3130  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 5:41 AM
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But you're talking about annexing areas that are, by far, less dense than the city of Salt Lake. Millcreek is a suburb and brings little value to the city outside increasing its population.

I doubt if Salt Lake annexed its neighbors that it would automatically lead to development downtown. There is no correlation in that regard.
     
     
  #3131  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 1:34 PM
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Here's another take on the low income versus high income debate. Which is more likely to develop a community downtown -- which is ultimately what is wanted? High income people will probably jump in the BMW and drive in and out and through the area. Low income people are more likely to have children and spend time in the area using whatever facilities there are, like open space. Maybe the more poor people the better.
     
     
  #3132  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 2:09 PM
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I think it would be best to have a good mixture of all income types downtown. With regards to housing allocations for income types, I do feel that they should be set not only on the number available but also the current lease/rental levels.

This would mean that a building could be set that 33% of the rooms are split between High, Middle and Low incomes. Yet at the same time, if Middle and High incomes are only leased/rented at 50%, this would mean that Low couldn't top 50% of their allotment.

I think that this could help reduce the decrease of potential property values while also keeping the building in better repair, provided that each income bracket isn't restricted to certain areas/floors of the building.

Incorporating income types together would make a community better than just one type or another. This would also help to diversify the nearby retail as well.
     
     
  #3133  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sight-Seer View Post
Here's another take on the low income versus high income debate. Which is more likely to develop a community downtown -- which is ultimately what is wanted? High income people will probably jump in the BMW and drive in and out and through the area. Low income people are more likely to have children and spend time in the area using whatever facilities there are, like open space. Maybe the more poor people the better.
I know what you're saying, but I just want to point out that restricted income doesn't always mean "poor." More often than not, it's middle income couples, or young to middle age single people. I lived in a low-income unit downtown just a couple of years ago. It was wonderful. I loved living downtown (still do, but in another unit and I'm no longer single). I parked my car for months at a time, used transit, went to bars, Jazz games, movies at Gateway and Broadway, tried all the restaurants, etc. The other tenants were, for the most part, like me. There were some older, disabled, but they were very nice people who also enjoyed where they lived. The building I was in has been up for more than 5 years and has not become any less desirable.

All the major cities in the country have incentives in place to build restricted income units in their cores. I have no problem with this, or with having an abundance of rentals. NYC's population is vastly dominated by rentals, and more than a million of those are in Section 8 housing. The more dense a population, the more diverse that population will and needs to be. I'm sure much of downtown would die if most of the people living there were the types buying condos at 99 West.
     
     
  #3134  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 7:09 PM
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This building demolition permit was submitted to the City today:
Commercial Demolition
Record BLD2013-02081 :
DEMO EXISTING STRUCTURE
370 S WEST TEMPLE
&
356 S WEST TEMPLE
Salt Lake City
https://aca.slcgov.com/Citizen/Cap/CapDe...17&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=

https://aca.slcgov.com/Citizen/Cap/CapDe...18&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=
     
     
  #3135  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 7:15 PM
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New loft development

Also, we had a client call us yesterday and ask for some design services for utilities for his new


loft development
47 East 700 South
Salt Lake City, UT
on the block just south of the Grand America Hotel.

I dont know anything other than that.... We'll see if anything comes of these discussions with the client.
     
     
  #3136  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 7:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperlord View Post
This building demolition permit was submitted to the City today:
Commercial Demolition
Record BLD2013-02081 :
DEMO EXISTING STRUCTURE
370 S WEST TEMPLE
&
356 S WEST TEMPLE
Salt Lake City
https://aca.slcgov.com/Citizen/Cap/CapDe...17&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=

https://aca.slcgov.com/Citizen/Cap/CapDe...18&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=

Those were Reuel's Art and the little grilly place, right? What was going into that spot again?
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  #3137  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 7:32 PM
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I was out of town last week, so I may have missed some discussion on this, but got an email that is an invite to the unveiling for the design for the UPAC. If you've attended any of the public input sessions for it, I assume you've received one too.

Anyway, details:

Wednesday April 17 5:30 PM
Utah Museum of Fine Arts
Dumke Auditorium
410 Campus Center Drive
Salt Lake City, Utah 84112

...that's on the U campus, right by the TRAX South Campus Station.

I'll be attending, I hope to see several of you there.

The e-mail had a "ticket' to admit you into the thing, but it also said to share it with people, so I don't know that you actually need one to get into the event.

Anyway. About a week away.
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  #3138  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperlord View Post
New loft development

Also, we had a client call us yesterday and ask for some design services for utilities for his new


loft development
47 East 700 South
Salt Lake City, UT
on the block just south of the Grand America Hotel.

I dont know anything other than that.... We'll see if anything comes of these discussions with the client.
That's good news. There needs to be mid-rise to high-rise developments south of Grand America Hotel.
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4. "99 West" 30-stories 375 FT 2011
5. "Key Bank Tower" 27-stories 351 FT 1976
     
     
  #3139  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 8:43 PM
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The RDA Board aka the City Council are discussing city owned property located just south of 400 South on 900 East. It used to be the Kiwanis Recreation Center. There were three submittals being discussed. I think the three designs are actually pretty good: http://www.slcrda.com/meetingsmin/2013/BOD/04913/8AKiwanisFelt.pdf If you look at the packet, the initial elevation for the recommended project is mislabeled. Keep scanning to better elevations.

They will also be discussing the hotel project south of the ESA. They are asking for a loan from the RDA Board to help pay to construct the new parking garage.
     
     
  #3140  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2013, 9:21 PM
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While I wouldn't mind more height to the proposals, I really like the look of 1 and 2 more than 3 but I wouldn't mind any of the 3 on the lot.

I would hope for concrete construction though but I am expecting wood frame.
     
     
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